Paranoid clickbaity B*llocks..?

[nigel s]

Or just really depressing?

[Upt North]

I'm not clicking on that!
 

[NeilM]

There's some truth but also he's taking the case of Completely Motorbikes and rolling it out over the whole industry.

CM had a lot of dealers, so with them passing into Administration, a lot of dealers all over the UK have closed. Some of them will return, as the administrators find buyers, so I don't think things are as black as he paints it.

Also, some brands are currently falling out of fashion, I believe KTM are not as popular as they were, so that won't help, but at the same time... the Chinese are coming, with Voge and CF Moto (yes I know the tie up with KTM), selling pretty much everything they can make.

With all the expensive bikes sold under finance deals, there is a strong possibility that people are waiting to see what happens under the new Government with regards to inflation, wages, interest rates etc.

Maybe the industry is shrinking, but if it can survive all the covid lockdowns and restrictions, I think there is hope for it yet.

[The Doctor 46]

He could be saying the same about pubs or many things. The world is going mad! We are spending so much money on sending rockets into space (which destroy our atmosphere on launch) and bombs and guns, but we are going through a financial crisis. When I say we I don't mean everybody, we doesn't include the supper rich, the Greedy.

If the Greedy can make money out of motorbikes then they will make and sell them but if they can't and know a better, easier way to make money then they will do that.

Everything is getting (got) so expensive that it seems that the Greedy are testing the market to see just how much they can make us spend. I don't think they are close to the upper limit yet, I mean just look how many people are ordering junk food to be delivered to their door when they could cook something much cheaper. People are still wasting money so still have some to spare.

Maybe one day the Greedy will see off the motorbike, the cars pubs and everything else then once they have all the money they will find that they live in a world that is no fun to live in even with all the money.

Anyway, this won't happen on my watch so if future generations want to let this happen then they will suffer the consequences, everything has consequences.

Yes the man in the video may have a point but I think it's happening slower than he thinks, there is still money to be made out of bikes and still a lot of joy in riding them. If they die out at all I think it will be because the roads are not fit to be ridden on, look at the decline in sports bikes and growth in the so called adventure bike.

Anyway, I'm going for a ride.   

[nigel s]

This is Dollars, 'cos the original CB750 was first released in the USA in'69 .
It cost $1495, 2 1/2 weeks wages at the times average earnings.
The new CB750 Hornet ( while it is a better bike by any measure ) is $12000 ,9.5 weeks wages at the present average.

Hmmm.

I hate to think what a new Fireblade runs to now,which as a pinnacle of tech available at the time would be The CB 750s modern counterpart.

Without new riders  coming through , needing cheap bikes , keeping prices ( and the average rider age ) down, us old B*stards  keep asking for new tech 'cos we can afford it ..and prices go up.
Yes Sir, here is the Radar cruise control /active braking/ active suspension you asked for......................sh*t on a stick ..where does it end

As was mentioned on a recent Front end Chatter pod, are the Chinese now doing to the Japanese what the Japanese did to the Brit bike industry?

Ho Hum

[crump]

Not sure aboutvyour figures there Nigel s, according to Google average weekly earnings in 1969 in the US was 160 dollars.
Motorcycling will survive, it will of course change as it always have.
I wonder if the average biker really wants all the tech currently being fitted to bikes?
Maybe more people will keep their bikes longer and go back to spannering their own bikes.

[nigel s]

Sorry, thanks for fact checking , I was using the new AI  on my Chrome book, it had average '69 wages at $34000 so $653 a week.
Bloody AI.
USA census says $181 a week , so not far out, meaning 8.2 weeks wages for the old CB.
Closer ,but for the Fireblade it is 22.5 weeks wages now, by same source 

I could well be wrong though,

As to the average Biker..that's us ..sort of?  and the BMW 1300 WILL sell, so does the new Tracer 9 GT plus, we only have ourselves to blame ( present company excepted on here ..Obviously)

Ho Hum

[2112]

I can see a shift in buyers to lower cost bikes that are hitting the market from the likes of China. These promise much, with lots of tech, astounding value and often market leading warranties. There may be issues with these bikes, but they'll probably last until the 4 year warranty is out? I see troubles ahead but it will settle down, there are ripples in the car market too. Government instability, mixed messages and inflation don't help anyone. At the end of the day, unless motorbikes are legislated out of existence (a very small but possible scenario) then there will continue to be a reasonable bike trade in the UK.

[Brockett]

I hear rumours ( grumbling) that Moto Guzzi dealers are thinning out a bit. I hear the dealers are still there but they have reached the end of the road with Piaggio who it seems are really difficult to do business with.  On another note a V7 Service - engine oil and filter and adhust the easy to do valve clearances £460 was quoted to a chap I met on Sunday. Instead he traded the bike for another V7 and was happy to take the loss for the sake of a full two year warranty.

[nigel s]

Brockett, that is insane

The next generation of riders may take a path we as the old generation can't fathom.
It happened with the Japanese bikes, the old school riders and even journos were dead against "jap crap" and look what happened.
PCP deals are more and more common, it may go that way, then warranty and long term reliability may become a non issue for the new thinking..don't know.
The ( I know it looks unlikely at the moment ) rise of electric bikes has to be factored in too.
Hell, in 30/40 years there may be NO private transport at all,  for professional use as in Farmers it maybe still about, but Average Joe may be using an app to book a self driver and sharing.If Elon Musk has his way.
Looking back at us old dinosaurs and laughing...good on 'em.
But someone ,somewhere will discover an old strom in an outbuilding, and fire it up and ride.

Ho Hum

[NeilM]

Brockett touches on a valid point.

Back when we were all youngsters, the name on a bikes tank was usually the name of the company that made the bike. Now you have massive manufacturing groups like Piaggio and Pierer Mobility who own multiple brands and make some pretty high demands on their dealers, without always giving them the backup they need.

I have heard little horror stories again and again about Piaggio and their attitude towards warranty claims and parts supplies. That doesn't take long to start effecting sales of certain brands.

The dealer just ends up being a pawn in this game.

Elsewhere in the industry; Energica look like they are in serious financial trouble, mostly because the money firm behind them turns out to engage in 'dubious financial practices'.

[UK_Vstrom650]

Personally, I think PCP is to blame. It's sold as a way to own something you can't afford, whereas it's a marketing scam to make the consumer have Perpetual Cash Payments for something they don't own/always trade.
It also allows manufacturers to say a bike is 'worth' £20k but you only have to pay for half it... If PCP didn't exist, those bikes wouldn't be £20k. Also if you can buy/PCP a car cheaper than a bike, what youngest is going to pick the latter? Motorbikes were supposed to be a cheaper form of transport.

I can't remember what the L2 was when I bought it, but since finishing paying for it it has owed me nothing other than consumable parts, and the one time the electrics were f***ed. I did look at part-exchanging it at the time but was put off by the sales pitch of PCP and £200 a month for something I'd never own.

The other thing that will be hitting sales will be all these illegally modified/cheap illegal e-motorbikes/scooters - who'd choose to go through the hassle of multiple tests/insurance/MOTs etc when you can just go to Amazon/ebay/Ali Express and get something delivered for the fraction of the cost of a scooter?

[The Doctor 46]

I don't know what happens when all those PCP vehicles come back to dealers. Can the dealer then offer used ex PCP vehicles on PCP or do they end up with lots of 2/3 year old used vehicles. I was wondering if in the not too distant future there will be a huge backlash on the dealers. 

[NeilM]

I have seen motorbike reviews on YouTube where the reviewer says, "this is a bargain of a bike, it will only cost XYZ a month on PCP". 

[mr_diver]

Dealers are there to make money - remember they aren't financing your purchase the finance company is.
The dealers with get their money from the finance company as soon as the vehicle is collected and invoiced.
You then spend 3 years paying the PCP payments, until you want to trade it back in for something else.

As long as you've kept it in good condition, kept the mileage within the contacts limits, you'll be able to hand the vehicle back and use equity you have in the vehicle against a new purchase.
Of course if the vehicle has been damaged, or over mileage there will be penalties meaning you may not have any equity left and may be owing the finance company more money as the guarantied future value is always based on a good condition unit being returned.

The dealers will then have the old vehicle to put their mark up on and sell as they would any other used vehicle.
Finance or cash/card makes little difference as they get their money when it's sold- they are only interested in the values of the vehicle.

There is always the option to keep the vehicle and pay the balloon payment - We did this with my car earlier this year as it was bought in early 2021 when the car market was on it's arse and we got a good deal, swapping now would cost us thousands to buy the same car. 

[The Doctor 46]

When I was about 12 years old I would ride to Liverpool city centre often and visit the dealer selling Norton Commando's, I loved them and even dreampt about them. I remember asking the dealer if I saved up (which I was already) and came in with cash to buy a new Commando how much would I save off the advertised price. So at age 12 I was told that the dealer would rather I bought on finance because not only did they get paid in full from the finance company but they received a bonus from them too.

I kept on saving and when I was 16 years old bought a used Yamaha YR3, a 350 twin 2 stroke. Nothing like the Norton and I still haven't even ridden one but I hadn't saved enough for it and I paid cash for my Yamaha. I past a few Norton's on it though  . 

[nigel s]

PCP..Poor C+nts Problem.
Most PCPs are 4000 miles, I do 15000, after the penalties, I would probably  be in trouble, the bike not worth enough  to cover what I owed.
Mind, I've  not looked  into it too hard, I have  already proved  maths is not my strongest  subject.

Ho Hum