EES and ETIAS for travelling in Europe

[Joe Rocket]

I thought to post this up so that all will know what's happening to border requirements beyond a passport and counting days in the Schengen zone from 10th November this year:

https://smithstonewalters.com/news/eu-confirms-start-date-for-entry-exit-system-ees#:~:text=The%20EES%20will%20apply%20to,the%20EES%20is%20available%20here.

First thing to note is that EES will eliminate the need to have passports stamped as the calculation will be done by 'the system'. It means that there could be cases (maybe many) where individual travellers haven't kept a good record of their 90 days in Schengen so be careful. ETIAS comes in next year and is a border control system, valid for three years, allowing frequent movement without the need to apply for futher permission (work, study or habitation etc requiring an expensive visa).

Be aware that it costs a lot more for the same priveleges to visit the US for example, a system which has been operating for a long time. It has become a general rule in border security for most countries and not punishment for leaving the EU. If you've cancelled your subscription to the golf club you won't get the same consideration as an outsider. 

[Rusty Nuts]

  Excellent information, Joe, thank you. Just been reading your linked pages. Considering that there's just over a month to go, I've not seen anything here about either scheme. I'll be investigating the pre-registering lark. We're not abroad again until February so there's plenty of time to see how it unfolds (unravels?) with unsuspecting travellers at borders.

[purplebikeunicorn]

As long as they don't start doing away with the passport stamps like the US.

For some, maybe not important, but the US did not stamp my passport when I visited or left.

[Rixington43]

AAAAND it's delayed again (probably), I believe the phrase is quelle surprise.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/09/plan-to-fingerprint-passengers-on-entry-to-eu-to-be-delayed-again

They will both likely arrive eventually but staying on top of the launch dates is a full time job.

[Upt North]

I can sense an EU joint meeting of pillocks will take place....
Then another,
Then another,
Then..........

[Joe Rocket]

Funny, isn't it, a Guardian report pointing out all the problems are supposedly 'nothing to do with us'. How ready is the UK? Problems involving Dover and up the motoway? Yes I know, don't even ask but we've seen all of this already. 

Can I add that my French passport application requires photo for recognition purposes and fingerprinting so even inside Schengen the rules apply already/too.

[Rixington43]

Too many vested interests, (don't disrupt the Olympics, don't disrupt the summer holidays, don't disrupt the ski season), although it sounds more like the system itself just isn't ready with French, Dutch and German ports/border posts saying they haven't received any of the hardware for testing yet. I've no doubt we aren't ready either but, all the politics aside, just pointing out that it keeps getting put back over and over again so it pays to keep checking rather than assume each announced date is when it will actually happen. I have Euro trips booked for Jan, March and April so I'm keen to know what's happening and when.

[Upt North]

What's Dover got to do with it.
This is what the EU wishes to implement. Isn't it?
Why would any EU official be in the least bit interested in queues on the M20?
It's pure and simple EU nonsense and ineptitude. It is the EU border patrols that aren't ready because the officials are still dithering over policy and implementation. The UK already utilises biometrics as far as I'm aware and electronically taking finger prints is quick and easy, it is afterall old technology.
With regards to the "Guardian" it's got to be the most EU positive rag I can think of.
I truly don't care what I have to do to travel, this seems small change compared to making rushed long journeys to embassies for visa compliance. If I/we have to comply with legislation to cross a border that's the price we pay.
It's a choice.
What we can't choose is to comply with legislation that so called officials are unable to deliver.
Upt.

[Joe Rocket]

I don't know why you stopped reading half way down the article Upt North. There are several references to queues at the port, motorway and even Dover itself. Also initially all travellers would be having to get out of vehicles to fulfill the biometric tasks.

Several ideas were raised to get the system put into UK ports and airports, maybe one at a time, which tells me the UK are the ones in no position yet get this up and running and not just Dover. There are no details of what is amiss on the EU side only that three countries have raised concerns and France can't enter into the agreement. Perhaps you know more than what is in the article? (I don't know who the 'officials' are you refer to or what they look like btw  )

The choice you mention at the end is one of comply or don't travel, it's a Third Country status choice as you have to take rules, not make them anymore. Hopefully any inconvenience will be as little as possible and short lived. 

[Upt North]

The checks that are predicted to cause issues are "French Border Checks", carried out by "French" operatives. These may not just take place in France but also in the UK.
You do know the EU have been attempting to implement this since 2016!
Although I spose for the EU this would pass as a rush job.
No one knows who the officials are or what they look like, which is why 52% of Brits were happy to say au revoir.
Pffffffftttttt.
This is not a UK issue, we will just comply with your EU regulations when you see fit to make a decision. I suggest no one holds their breath on that one.
Upt.

[Upt North]

C'est la vie.

[Rixington43]

Connexion and a few other EU news outlets have mentioned that the tablets and computers required to allow this process have not arrived at border posts for testing, these are EU border posts rather than UK ones since this system isn't a UK requirement.
https://www.connexionfrance.com/news/french-ferry-ports-it-and-tablets-not-ready-for-ees-border-changes/683012

I think the point is that, whilst the UK press will focus on the possibility of delays on the UK side (obviously because that's what is relevant to UK readers), these delays will have nothing to do with the system roll out potentially being pushed back, the EU absolutely wouldn't be delaying one of their flagship border security policies based on the UK being worried about traffic. It has been delayed because the EU side technology isn't ready and there are internal arguments about when is best to roll it out based on each countries priorities around tourism.
I'm certain these issues will be effecting other 3rd countries outside the EU but we don't see their media coverage unless we go looking.
Yes our recent choices have meant we are subject to these checks when we wouldn't have been previously but we aren't to blame for the delay.

Anyway, back to the original point, if you're planning travel to the EU then do keep checking the internet for updates. At some point in the near (or distant) future there will be changes to how you pass through border control and you'll need to make sure you're ready for them.

[Joe Rocket]

Thanks for that Rixington, something more concrete in writing.

My 'd'accord' goes to Upt North too. I did know that passport control takes place at opposing ports. 2016 just happens to be vote leave year, I know. I bet the percentages look a lot different now but that's another story.

[Rusty Nuts]

Upt, we don't know who our own officials are or what they look like. The anonymity of the Eurocrats was not, I strongly suspect, the reason for the 51.9% of the 72% who voted leave doing so. Not 52% of Brits.

[Rixington43]

Well the delay is official but no new timeline has been suggested.
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/10/10/eu-delays-again-its-new-entryexit-system-for-short-stay-travellers2

Watch this space I guess..........

[Joe Rocket]

Border systems have been in the news today. https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20241211-the-big-changes-coming-to-uk-and-european-travel-in-2025

EES and ETIAS are metioned but no dates.........

[Rixington43]

Spring launch dates sound good to me, get another full year of skiing before all the bureaucratic ball ache kicks in 
Bike touring in the UK next year then get my money's worth out of the paperwork in 2026 😀.

[Tomfum]

Is it only me or do you feel we are seeing more and more restrictions  to our lives and unable to do anything about it . Freedom is fast becoming a thing of the past 🤷‍♀️

[StromGeeza]

I know a lot of musician friends. Unless you are in a mega successful outfit, the increased red tape and paperwork involved in playing a gig in the EU makes it a huge loss-maker. And, so long as they had a passport,  they used to be able to just hop in a van and go.
Also, few,if any, of the local foodie operations now export to the EU. It's tough...

[Rusty Nuts]

I've just read the linked article. At one point it says:


“Critics of the expanded ETA scheme are concerned that the extra process and fee will be a barrier to younger and less affluent travellers.”


I'd hardly think that, when you've shelled out for flights, accommodation, transfers, food, drink, excursions etc. that a few quid / euros would make the difference between going and staying.