Author Topic: Oil shelf life  (Read 1339 times)

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Offline porter

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Oil shelf life
« on: February 03, 2021, 09:36:53 »
Bought some oil of Ebay the other month, never looked much at it and after putting it in the other day I noticed its product date was 04/16. Save to use or lesson learned?

Offline Mr Nick

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2021, 10:05:23 »
If the additives package was so volatile that it evaporated through the lid of the container, it wouldn't last very long in a hot engine. A big part of the package is there to neutralise compounds harmful to the engine so, unless those somehow seeped into the container, everything should be there waiting for use.
it's just another modern trait that everything has to acquire a date after which it is no longer useful, where we were happy to use them many years after without incident in the past.
Seems pearl asbo orange is faster after all....

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Offline UK_Vstrom650

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2021, 10:53:50 »
I always thought production dates were for quality control (for lubricants etc anyway) e.g. if they realised a batch of oil wasn't up to spec they could recall those produced between certain dates.

Offline Dark-Strom

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2021, 18:01:31 »
Suppose it depends what wood the shelf is made of...  :shrug:
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Offline tallpaul

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2021, 19:57:31 »
Glad it wasn't just me who thought that, Dark-Strom! :whistle:
Old enough to know better, but still too young to care...

Offline porter

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2021, 09:08:15 »
The shelf is plastic! My nephew drives an old VW Bora, he called at mine asking about an oil change, I said I've just the thing for you kid!  Oil removed from the strom and fitted to the Bora!

Offline Brockett

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2021, 10:13:00 »
A useful and valid question porter.  There must be a date beyond which we should doubt the quality of anything we use on our motorcycles which are, by definition, unstable. Tyres for example are degraded by sunlight and extremes of temperature.   Brake fluid attracts and holds water and must therefore be changed at certain intervals and once opened the container, even though only half empty should be discarded and not used. I admit that, after use, I put the half used container on the shelf in case I need to top up again in the next couple of weeks and then only dispose of it after I have bought the next one two to three years later. I think oil in a plastic container should last a good few years and can be used subject to being to same standard as the handbook requires. There is a reverse aspect to this. Back in 1965 my BSA Bantam two stroke ran on a petrol /oil ratio of 20:1. Because of improvements in oil technology today's Bantam owners run on 32:1 . My 1961 Royal Enfield required Castrol Grand Prix which was a straight 50 grade. I doubt that is the same now.   Which brings me to the subject of lubricating the engine, gearbox and clutch/ primary drive with the same oil which I still dislike. My friends four stroke Honda 250 used the same amount of oil as my two stroke Puch 125. Only difference was that after a couple of thousand miles he drained his and threw it away whereas  my Puch sucked it in with the fuel  and blew it out with the exhaust. Greta would have been furious.
This doesn't last forever, so do it while you can.

Offline RederOR

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2021, 10:15:54 »
Bought some oil of Ebay the other month, never looked much at it and after putting it in the other day I noticed its product date was 04/16. Save to use or lesson learned?
Any info on the packaging about how long since production date should you use it ? Oil is a quite complex chemical fluid - yes, it degrades over time, question is how much. As far as I remember, engine oils can be stored (assuming the bottle is sealed) for at least 5 years - means you good to use it.

Offline porter

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2021, 11:35:01 »
It was marked 04/16 so nearly the 5 years. I looked online and some oil companys said 5 years some 2.  It just kept eating away at me so its out now. It was also a 15w50 I bought this as I thought it might quiet down the clutch a bit but it was very thick and slow to pour, but its perfect for a 175k mile VW Bora!

Offline Rixington43

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2021, 11:42:32 »
I may be wrong here so others can chime in but are bike and car oil not rather different beasts?
Car oil has all sorts of friction modifiers in to make it shear thin so it flows more freely under load to help with cold starts. Bike oil has none of these as the oil needs to lubricate the clutch but not so much as to make it slip. I would imagine putting bike oil into the car is less of a risk than car oil into a bike but I still wouldn't personally risk it for the price of a bottle of the correct formulation.
Again, don't take this as gospel unless others know better but I didn't think the two were strictly interchangeable.

Offline RederOR

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2021, 12:01:04 »
[...] I would imagine putting bike oil into the car is less of a risk than car oil into a bike but I still wouldn't personally risk it for the price of a bottle of the correct formulation.
Depends on the car - IMHO in a lot of cases it could cause quite a lot of harm: no friction modifiers, ash (bye, bye DPF/GPF), viscosity and HTHS range probably quite different than required, different standards (ACEA in cars vs JASO in bikes). Could work with an old banger but not with something modern. Personally I'd avoid using wrong oil.

Offline Rixington43

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2021, 12:05:16 »
Good point, I never consider DPF as I've never owned a diesel.

Forgive me if this is a patronising question to the OP but the oil was motorcycle specific in the first instance?

Offline mr_diver

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2021, 14:11:54 »
Car oil marked as "energy conserving" or "friction reduction additives" should never be used in a bike engine with a wet clutch, but a non-unit construction engine with dry or separately housed clutch would generally be fine with it.

Any old oil could go in a pre water-cooled BMW boxer as there is a dry clutch.

Oil grade is another one where people get too hung up over.
In every owner's manual there is a chart to help you choose which oil grade to use dependent on the temperature where the engine it used.

Putting 20w50 in the strom is not going to kill the engine. Neither is 0w10.
But there a more suitable grades.
Oil of the wrong grade is still better than no oil.

Many of the dissident colonials across the pond use Shell Rowenta 20w50 truck oil in the mk1 Strom 1000 for longer service intervals and report no ill effects after some seriously high miles. 100k>

But putting the same thicker viscosity oil in a GSXR and blasting it around a track will likely sheer the long stand hydrocarbons that make up the oil.

Basically shredding oil and it more 'runny' as it wasn't designed for that sort of abuse.
Cruising for long miles at low/medium rpm in the strom engine going state to state in the US is fine.

As for shelf life of oil... it's a marketing ploy.
"Don't use that oil, it was made 2+ years ago"
Forgetting the fact it's made from dead dinosaurs millions of years ago and laid under the earth until some bloke drilled a deep enough hole.

OK additives may not last millions of years and are something we added, but the basic oil grades were all present in the cruide oil extracted from mother earth and distilled and refined to make the perfect 10w40 motorbike specific oil for a Suzuki and 10w30 for my Honda (psss I use 10w40 as it's cheaper)

 :dl_soapbox:  :dl_soapbox:  :dl_soapbox:  :dl_soapbox:

Stick it in and forget about it.
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I'm going to go lie down now.
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Offline Rixington43

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2021, 15:14:18 »
So at the risk of circling back to the OP ;)

Are we collectivley saying:

If the oil you purchased was motorcycle specific then it probably isn't going to do the car much good, I would swap for car oil. It was probably fine in your bike as age and viscosity are minor concerns (up to a point obviously).

If it was car oil then it's now in the right place as it won't have been great for your bike.

I know everyone has their personal opinions on lubricants (for their bikes as well) and as for tyres, well let's no go there....
I do think it's worth making sure the right oil type is in the right vehicle though.

Offline mr_diver

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2021, 16:57:09 »
Yes

&

Yes



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Offline porter

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2021, 17:58:37 »
It was a bike spec oil, Motul 5100 15w50. I only rode it 5 mile but the gearbox seemed more clunky, could be my imagination who knows, seems better now with the normal Castrol in it.
I would not have put the oil in my car, nothing fancy just a wee Suzuki swift but the nephew's car is a real banger and bike oil will be better than the Asda or Tesco crap he'd normally use. I think the 4litre oil can is worth more than the car!

Offline mr_diver

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2021, 21:10:55 »
15w50 being a heavier oil, I would think the engine would be quieter and the gearbox smoother.  :shrug:

It's strange how a different oil seems to give a different gear change.

Back on the strom when I was doing 4-5 oil changes a year I tried different oils and found Silkolene XP (semi synth) and Super 4 10w40 gave the best "feel" to the gear change.
Motul 3100 or 5100 was OK, came out not as dark.
Shell fully comp (on offer in m&p) was crap
Castrol was nearly as nice a "feel" as Silkolene XP semi synth/Super 4 but more expensive.

But I kept going back to Halfords and buying their own brand (made by Comma) 5ltr for £23 with the trade card.
Gear change felt the same as with Silkolene after 200miles, 5ltr instead of 4 and nearly half the price.
Would come out manky as, but that's also a good thing as it's cleaning the carbon out of the engine.

The expensive (when not on offer) Shell was best avoided as it came out quite clean and runny like water.

I've also tried basic semi synthetic halfords (Comma) car oil in the Strom for around 15k miles.
No ill affects.

Gearbox did go pop at 60k but had nothing to do with oil.  :bawl:



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Offline porter

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2021, 08:50:44 »
I never liked Silkolene oil that much, always change it out on any bike I have. Comes from way back in 1991 when their pro4 oil came out a few racers here got sponsorship including the bloke I helped out, by 4 race's into the season all the freshly built engines ( some by legend Tony Scott) had went big time. We where OK as we'd some Shell Gemini left from last season and not used the Pro4! I'm sure the oil is different now, much different.
 I think the old vstrom will run on pretty much anything. I nearly brought the Halfords full synthetic oil, I would have but seen it was a 5w40, thought that might be a bit thin for a big twin.
I'll be dubious now about buying oil of ebay again, think in future I'll just pay the extra tenner or so and get it from Halford's or a bike shop.  But I hate going to bike shops as I always see a bike, jacket, helmet etc etc I like better than mine!!!

Offline Rixington43

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2021, 09:00:36 »
Bike service is due about a month before the car so I just get bike oil from Euro Car Parts at the same time as I get the car stuff.
They always have daft discounts on if you click and collect, think I'm on the Shell Advance Ultra fully synth stuff at the moment. Yes it's pricy and very possibly not worth the extra money but pampering the heck out of my vehicles gives me a warm fuzzy feeling so I pay the price :)

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Re: Oil shelf life
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2021, 15:51:13 »
Do they really have all these "fancy" motorcycle specific oils in third world counties, or for that matter right across the US.
Reading BurgmanUSA forums suggests not.
The Kawasaki GT that I have just sold, after 30 years use, and 36k miles,(H reg), still sounds like a sewing machine. It only ever got "car oil", 'cos that's all there was in 1990.
But car oils didn't have the additives they do now.
Even DL650s used to manage on "MOTOR OIL" (Per 2004 User Manual)