Author Topic: Experience using LiFePo4 in place of the standard batteries?  (Read 406 times)

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Offline sharealike

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Keen to hear experiences. Particularly lifespan (years) and cold weather behaviour (near zero degrees) experiences.
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Offline nigel s

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Re: Experience using LiFePo4 in place of the standard batteries?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2025, 04:55:03 »
Not in bikes , but in boats. Some customers specify lithium  starter batteries in their builds. Boats that have lithium are always fitted with engine room heaters that run off shore power. Lead acid fares much better at lower temps if left, not ideal in either case, but if shore power/on board generator is not available , we recommend lead acid.
Lead acid charging systems keep the battery topped up at all times when running, which is what they like. If swapping to lithium you would have to rely on the batteries onboard Battery Management System ( BMS ) to control charging, assuming it has one ..not all do , some just have a simple overload protection, and assume the system it is connected to is controlling charge ...not ideal if that system was designed for lead acid.
 Lithium's main advantage is multiple drain scenarios, Ev/ Ebike , where they out perform lead acid. Even then they don't like 100% or below 10% charges.
I would not put a lithium on a bike designed for lead acid, but some do  :shrug:. Proper maintenance of lead acid ( smart charger ) will mean it lasts and performs as needed so don't see the point, especially if kept below freezing.
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Offline 2112

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Re: Experience using LiFePo4 in place of the standard batteries?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2025, 09:12:56 »
Lithium Iron Phosphate has become the 'go to' chemistry for grid scale and smaller domestic scale batteries recently. The advantages over Lithiun Ion are significant, the main one being that they don't catch fire... They generally don't have quite the same energy density (Amp hours in this case) or the peak output (cranking power in this case) but it will only be a few percent down on Lithium Ion and will be significantly up on AGM or lead acid. They have a large tempreture operating range and don't suffer as much as Lithium Ion batteries in colder weather or indeed hotter climes. They are a bit less 'fussy' about their cell management and can tolerate a bit more abuse than Lithium Ion. I have heard they can be fully cycled to 0% and be recharged without drama (grid scale). The number of cycles (charge to discharge/discharge to charge) is significantly higher than a Lithium Ion battery and this gives them a much longer life span, often over twice of a Lithium Ion battery. Not heard them used at only 12v before?
It's pronounced 'twenty-one-twelve'

Offline sharealike

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Re: Experience using LiFePo4 in place of the standard batteries?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2025, 02:31:59 »
I'm trying one that's made as direct "drop in" replacement for the standard battery. 2000 life cycles, push button led state of charge indicator and half the weight.

Its behaving a treat over summer. Wondering if anyone has used in a bike all year. They can't accept a charge once below zero degrees which is common in the exposed position of the bike frame. Not so bad under the bonnet of a car or inside a boat and motorhomes living area.
Start engine on a cold day and the wind chill as you ride could in theory  take the battery down to below zero which prevents charging. Would we have a flat battery after a few days?
Please contact me directly about clutch basket modifications. john@vibefreev.com
Website http://www.vibefreev.com/

Offline nigel s

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Re: Experience using LiFePo4 in place of the standard batteries?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2025, 04:59:35 »
Will be interested to see how you get on with it, keep us posted . Do you have a link to the battery ?
2000 cycles is good, my gasgas Ebike battery is rated for 1000. However each time it is charged , even if it is from ,say, 90% to 100% counts as a charge cycle, so you have a max of 2000 rides even if the temp is good, even popping to the shop for milk will count as a cycle ?
 Gasgas recommends to allow the battery to drop to 10% then charge to 90% (if storing the bike ) or 100% if using it the next day to help get around that charge cycle limit and get the longest life from the battery. It should never be stored at 100 %, but needs to be taken to 100% charge every 4/5 90% charges to equalise the cells, then used after 1/2 hours cooling down. Cell failure due to poor BMS equalisation is the main cause of E bike battery demise.  It is the BMS again that controls battery charge and ultimately life. Hopefully your batteries BMS is doing all this for you  :shrug: but don't know how it gets around that 100% charge/storage problem?
Performance will drop before it gets to 2000 cycles. I have had my gasgas E bike for a year now , it is used to commute on and weekends so charged every week at least so maybe 75/100 charges , and while in use it still performs fine range at the std power has dropped from 77 to 75 miles . That may be the difference between lead acid and your new one, lead acid doesn't suffer from that charge cycle decay to the same extent, it likes being fully charged.
Reading on the other forums about those who have fitted non lead acids they seem to get the best out of them in warm countries and where the bike is stored without access to a smart charger for lead acids ( the reason for fitting them) for long periods.  :shrug:
Interesting to see how it performs over a cold winter. I would think even if it starts out cold , being on top of the rear exhaust it will soon get it up to temp and be able to charge .
As I said , please let us know how you get on  :thumb:

Offline nigel s

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Re: Experience using LiFePo4 in place of the standard batteries?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2025, 05:57:51 »
Quick add on , I timed out on the last post  :shrug:
Do you have an onboard volt meter on your model ? if not, getting one fitted would be handy to monitor the battery while riding, and hopefully prevent being stranded .
I fitted one of these to my CBR600RR recently ,with a switch, direct to the battery ..cheap enough :icon_wink:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126371675756?var=427412547727
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394871927645

Offline sharealike

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Re: Experience using LiFePo4 in place of the standard batteries?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2025, 10:07:22 »
Just to clarify the subject is about fitting the emerging technology LiFe Po battery to your normal petrol engined bike in place of its usual lead acid starter battery and sharing our experiences of this.
I'm hoping the anticipated life of LiFePo and less need for charging during months of storage are game changers. Particularly for those with bikes that are just taken out on the odd occasion.
Hoping to go to any bike in the shed, push the button and just go. Sweet and simple. Even better if just one long term battery can be switched between bikes to the one you fancy taking out. They are so small, light  clean and carry their own state of charge indicator.
Please contact me directly about clutch basket modifications. john@vibefreev.com
Website http://www.vibefreev.com/