Low RPM assist

[STORMY]

@ Brockett When my bike continued to stall after fitting the BP I did get that “expensive” feeling in the pit of my stomach. But I’ll reserve judgment on Suzuki and in fairness give them the chance to correct the issue, it’s not what I expect at such a low mileage I’m fairly sure it’s electronic - probably a black box failing somewhere. Now it’s down to liability (if that is the case) and a dealer telling me “we can’t find anything wrong” because they can’t afford to tie up a mechanics time waiting for this fault to appear........
KTM’s radical and fragile sounds like my ex Italian wife who got traded for a Scandinavian model   

[Pete O Tube]

I'd try a TRE (Timing Retard Eliminator), it certainly cleans things up on my old K7 1000 and combined with syncing the throttle bodies has cured erratic idle and the odd 'cough' at low RPM.

Mine's on RJS Superbikes' dyno in two weeks time for them to tweak the fuelling with their Yoshi box - with a K&N filter and TRE it should be as good as it's ever going to be.

I test rode a 2021 1050XT the other week and I noticed the low RPM assist, I didn't particularly like the feature.

[STORMY]

@ Pete O Tube I’ve read good things about the TRE but I’m not spending another penny on this bike. Just to be clear though my bike ran / runs flawlessly no missing or coughing, zero performance issues and now even slow speed riding around town is a pleasure following the installation of a BP.
The very slow speed engine cut out is electronic and my suspicions are the ECM sensor is failing.
I’ve written to Suzuki HQ asking if they are prepared to investigate at their expense before I escalate further.
I’m fairly confident they will assist.

[Mr Nick]

Nothing like confidence in your own drive to resolve this, but it is a 4 year old bike now, that you bought as the 2nd owner two years ago, and long outside any warranty period Suzuki would entertain I fear, regardless of mileage. Good luck with it though.

[STORMY]

@Mr Nick The phrase p I s s I n g into the wind does spring to mind but God loves a trier 
I’ve already had a reply from somebody called Natalie who in fairness to herself did refer my somewhat technical email to their technical dept (good start).
They confirm as follows (paraphrasing)
There are no ECM issues with the age / model of bike I own.
They go onto say that home servicing may mean that some items may need checking / adjusting with ‘the’ diagnostic device available at Suzuki dealerships (they’re talking about the SMS software I think).
They’ve offered no other assistance which I expected, so I guess I’ll be booking it in hopefully nothing to expensive, but if it does transpire the ECM has failed and they don’t shift on their position - I’ll go to a small claims court it’s worth a punt.
I have taken both Skoda & Mercedes to court in the past on vehicles out of warranty and won both times (although I had them serviced professionally which may have helped).
My stance is simple: a black box should last a minimum of 5 years, that’s not unreasonable it’s not a service item or a serviceable item, at this mileage it really shouldn’t fail.

[Mr Nick]

It's easier to pursue a claim for a defined failure that has been positively diagnosed as faulty within an unreasonably sort period or due to negligence. It took me a year to sort out Evans Halshaw's amateur bodge of a warranty repair on a car a few years ago. It was pretty clear - the diff failed and knocked a hole in the casing, which they just got welded up badly, and then managed to put the clutch friction plate in backwards causing it to fail a few months later, but outside the warranty period. The weld was so bad that the revised clutch design wouldn't fit without hitting the patch. Neither Trading Standards nor the court understood the technical side of what I was pursuing, even at that basic level, and that really hampered the case, and we ended up at a compromise position eventually.

With the gearbox issue you'd posted elsewhere, there was a clearly identified component failure and that didn't get very far, so an intermittent hesitation that has no defined cause, on a system that you've made alterations to using non-approved aftermarket parts, is another big step up in difficulty level. Have you found anyone in the wider community who has managed to pin this down to a specific sensor or control unit yet?

[STORMY]

There’s no doubt about it in my mind that ultimately I’m probably on a hiding to nothing, I understand fully without a defined failure my chances of winning are slim at best.

I think though, first of all I have to give a dealer a fair go of at least trying to isolate the problem. A good tech with experience on V Stroms might know exactly where to look and what to do, if it’s adjustment or some other components that are expected to wear out I have got no problem whatsoever with that - it’s called tough luck and I’ll be paying no doubt through the nose but that’s life as they say.
I think the bloke with the failed gearbox wouldn’t pursue it, he’d had enough (his words) , to me that rings alarm bells something we’re not aware of perhaps?
I have confidence in the way my bike has been maintained, it really is pampered and afforded a degree of mechanical sympathy. The after market Booster Plug was fitted long after the fault appeared, and can be removed without trace in 30 or so minutes (that’s why I didn’t go for a TRE  which involved wire cutting).
Unfortunately I haven’t found a similar issue on line etc apart from the YT bloke who’s vid I posted earlier in this thread,  that fault was intermittent and very similar to my own, especially where he talks about the bike flopping at low speed. Elsewhere, where a stalling issue seems to exist it’s fairly consistent and can be reproduced at will allowing the owner to identify more readily.
I’ve attached the official reasons from the workshop manual (but these are attributed to frequent stalling). Ominously ECM and other assorted sensors pop up frequently, but I do not have any error codes showing, so I’m hopeful at this point in time.

[Brockett]

Did you try  a few tank fulls with injector cleaner added to the fuel? ( sorry in advance if you've already dealt with  this issue). I had a Harley that played up at low revs and bottle of injector cleaner did sort it out and saved a strip down. However I too have a similar issue with my car . A Honda Jazz ( yeah I know) it sits at tickover just fine but sometimes as I let the clutch bite the reves rise as I press down on the accelerator and then it just dies and the car stalls. Not every time, not everyday or every week,  but just know and again just annoy me. It's a weak, flat spot just 50 to 100rpm off tickover. I think it's in the emissions testing zone, but what do I know?  Good luck  chasing Suzuki.

[STORMY]

Thanks Brockett, your Jazz seems to mimic my bike of course in a car it’s just annoying as we both know. I’m fairly certain it’s not fuel but I may be applying old rules of thumb here I.e. fuel = a slower engine cut, electronic / electrical = an instant stop......there is zero warning, so I’m guessing it is sensor related. But to answer your Q directly no injector cleaner added to date.
You know one thing has reared it’s head which I’m trying hard not to give any credence to........
Last September it went into my local Suzuki dealer for an MOT and I asked them to try and trace a fairly pronounced rattle. Meanwhile I took out a 1050 for a road test I was gone for about an hour, I arrived back at the dealers my bike has been “done” according to the youth on the desk. Went to collect my paperwork / pay etc and this is what I was told.
The rattle / graunching noise could be coming from the bar backs fitted, we also tightened up your crash bars  (remember that bit). I looked on in dismay with my don’t be silly face and asked for my MOT docs..........long pause oh we haven’t done that......sorry.
My bike is quickly taken out back again MOT’d and they tell me off about stretching brake hoses (I think I mentioned it on here). Anyway I pay and leave and the rattle...........is still there loud and proud. I could have turned around but by this time had lost the will to live.
Annoyed and with some time on my hands I found the problem etc......
But thinking about it my bike never stalled before the MOT, and almost immediately afterwards it started acting up - odd don’t you think?
Picture of missing bolt from the CRASH BARS  .
So this dealer owes me some workshop time and I’ll be reminding them of that when I book it in, the boss is already aware after a quiet word in his shell when I bought an oil filter off them.

[Rixington43]

If you ever decide you want to try a TRE without cutting wires or spending money then let me know and I'll post you mine.
Came on the bike but I removed it, no power supply or anything, just plugs in line on the gear position sensor and removes just as easily.
Definitely go the Suzuki route first naturally but I won't ever re-fit, I like my Overdrive light too much ;)

[STORMY]

@ Rixington43 A very kind offer (and much appreciated thank you), but for now I’ll pass because I’m still trying to work out my next move, trade it, or keep it? I’m being seduced by KTM, but the expense is probably too steep for me this year (covid).

In sheer desperation I went out yesterday (again) with the sole intent of making the thing stall and failed dismally, in what was probably around 100 miles of urban riding (tedious), nothing happened, it just wouldn’t stall despite my best efforts. Self doubt I’m afraid started to creep into my mind on the ride home, maybe it’s the crap rider? 

On a positive the Booster Plug has made quite a difference to town riding, it’s allowing the bike to stay one gear higher and pull cleanly from 2000rpm, so that’s been a real win

Booking it in after yesterday’s ‘failure to stall’ I’m fairly convinced will only produce a bill and little else, unless they can detect something electronically by hooking it up - but surly you’d get an error code or two then?

So maybe some more testing & checking today in a bid to get this thing to start failing consistently if the weather holds out, sadly the pleasure of riding has evaporated, always being in a state of high readiness at junctions / stop start traffic is hard work with your leg hanging out - I  must look a right melt but it’s better than rolling around the deck I suppose.

[TLPower]

Once your faith has gone it's gone.

The Orange Order are always looking for new recruits.

[STORMY]

@ Mr Power are you one of their recruiting agents, they are rather nice beasts............
That said today was again not a success (or a success depends how you view it). Not a hint of a stall, we had a meaningful chat in the New Forrest today it went something like.....if you don’t cut it out (I know bad choice of words) you’re gone

[Rusty Nuts]

Intermittent faults are worse than continuous / permanent ones. In my previous incarnation I was a textile machine maintenance spanner monkey. The number of times I got called to a machine, only to be told "it's not doing it now" stay there for a while, return to the workshop, get my book back out, light a cigarette and have a machine operator stick his head round the door - "it's doing it again." 

[STORMY]

@ Rusty Nuts They are the worst of the worst but a great feeling when you finally solve it 
I have to say the bike has never run better it’s outstanding at the moment (maybe the BP at work),