Author Topic: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??  (Read 525 times)

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Offline scatz

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Hello All,

Question for those who have really fiddled a lot with their Strom's.

The only thing I do not like about my bike are the brakes. Recently the local dealership lent me their DL1000 demo while my 650 was having a recall done. Wow.... the brakes !!

So, any suggestions ? I guess putting the DL1000 power-stoppers on the 650 may not be possible, but has anyone managed to make dramatic improvements to their brakes ?

My bike is a 2017 Strom 650.

Thanks in advance !  :auto-dirtbike:

Offline sv1000

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2019, 19:00:41 »
Try these

Online Pete O Tube

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2019, 10:36:30 »
What are they from? And where did you get the adapter plates?

I've seen some TL1000 four pot calipers going cheap, are there any off the shelf adapter plates?

Offline TLPower

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2019, 11:26:36 »
https://www.v-strom.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=29055.0 not TL calipers but an upgrade all the same.
When accelerating the tears of emotion have to run off horizontally to the ear. (Walter Röhrl)

Offline sv1000

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2019, 18:41:48 »
These tokicos came off my sv1000 and I used the master cylinder as well. I run brembo red pads and believe me this set up puts the standard vstrom to shame. I made my own adaptor plates out of aircraft spec alloy.

Offline edbailey

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2019, 20:17:03 »
Just a question for those in the know.

Almost every part off my old GSF 650 2009 could be swapped on to my V-strom 650 2018.  With this in mind, aren't there any other sportier Suzuki's with interchangeable brake callipers?

Offline sjrainsford

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2019, 18:25:42 »
I can’t say as I have much in the way of complaint with my 650 brakes. I only ever use two fingers to haul myself up to a stop and never find it’s an effort riding solo or two up.  Emergency stops activate the ABS no bother.
What more could I want?

Offline sv1000

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2019, 18:32:09 »
I suppose that after riding a vespa(your other bike) a vtroms brakes would feel sufficient!!!

Online kwackboy

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2019, 19:31:24 »
Vstrom 650 calipers have been used on many models over the years (don't ask me why), I believe the the most powerful being the gsx750 up until around 2015. This bike is no slouch and the only difference is the front master cylinder.
Improving brakes is beneficial on any bike that needs it and several models of nissin / tokico calipers will work but will need custom mounting plates, these can be bought from SV Racing in the USA. 

Honda hornet 900,
Early model 893,918,929,954 fireblades,
Honda VTR 1000,
Honda CB1300,
Suzuki Gsxr 600s K1-5, I think.

Possibly more.

Obviously for best results a larger master cylinder and better brake lines would be beneficial and if you have the knowledge you can fit many master cylinders from bigger faster bikes.
From my findings when I upgraded my Vee brakes the best master cylinder was from a Honda 954 fireblade (you would need new brake lines) but if you have plenty of money you could go all out and buy brembo.

Offline TLPower

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2019, 19:35:06 »
 :text-goodpost:
When accelerating the tears of emotion have to run off horizontally to the ear. (Walter Röhrl)

Offline sjrainsford

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2019, 21:00:17 »
I suppose that after riding a vespa(your other bike) a vtroms brakes would feel sufficient!!!

 :grin:
Actually my Vespa GTS brakes are easily better than the Strom brakes. But I find it perfectly adequate coming from a BMW with Brembos.  Yes they’re more sort of spongey but they’re easy to regulate and up to the job.
I do think there’s a matter of expectation in brakes.  So I suppose you could say subjectively they don’t feel great but objectively they’re perfectly adequate.

Offline edbailey

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2019, 23:28:28 »
Brilliant post Kwackboy.  Just to make sure I am understanding what you're saying, to improve braking all I'd really need to do is increase the I/D of the brake lines and fit a larger, more powerful master cylinder?

Also would I need to get an ABS compatible master cylinder or does it not matter?

thanks in advance

Offline wurzel

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2019, 03:29:04 »
Ed, I think you will find increasing the I'd of brake lines is not a fix, but fitting braided, or better quality lines is the aim, to prevent brake line expansion.
Master cylinder diameter is relevant, the smaller the internal diameter the more braking force, or fluid pressure you will get.
Obviously, a certain volume of fluid is needed to move the pads from non contact to braking contact.
The smaller diameter the MC, the more travel you will feel at the lever before effective braking is delivered.
High quality brake components help in reducing this ' hydraulic slack', so you can't make a silk purse from a pig's ear, but with the right MC choice will get improved braking force.
Experience of others, such as above posts, will get you in the right direction, and save you trial and error.

Offline wurzel

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2019, 04:18:03 »
Radial mounting of calipers offers more caliper stability than axial mounting, lending itself to more radical master cylinder diameter reductions, as there is less slop in the silk purse than a pig's ear axial mount.
This will to some extent be a limiting factor, if your calipers are of axial mount, as I think they are.
Lever mechanical advantage, and efficiency will have some effect, with the same caveats on the slack at the calipers.
Paracetamol time... :fix:

Online kwackboy

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2019, 13:10:19 »
Just to make sure I am understanding what you're saying

Braided lines like Goodrich have a slightly smaller internal diameter using less fluid and stronger for less expansion, coupling this with larger bore master cylinder should result in a more solid/responsive feel to your brake.

My findings resulted in my setup having Goodrich lines with a 19mm bore master cylinder (standard should be 14mm) and a set of 4 pot hornet 900 calipers.
My vee didn't have ABS so on an ABS system you may experience a different feel and for your info the ABS pump is separate so what ever master cylinder you use will work fine .

You have to be careful not to oversize the bore on the master cylinder as this could result in a "wooden" feel to the brake.

Offline TLPower

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2019, 16:31:56 »
 :text-goodpost: You've been doing some serious reading or you actually know stuff. :bow-blue:
When accelerating the tears of emotion have to run off horizontally to the ear. (Walter Röhrl)

Offline edbailey

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2019, 19:09:26 »
OK so braided lines with slightly smaller I/Ds and a larger master cylinder.

Nice one

Offline wurzel

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2019, 21:04:37 »
Ed, the master cylinder needs a smaller diameter piston than oem to make brakes work better for the same effort, a larger diameter MC will harden the feel, but you will get less brake pad pressure, fact.
Also, brake line that does not swell under pressure is the most effective at transferring hydraulic pressure,as long as the line is not restrictive,the internal diameter has no effect on brake efficiency.
Anyone who suggests the opposite needs to get their facts right before it costs someone money.
Please, I urge you, before spending money for a braking improvement read up or talk to a brake technician.
The braking power is a corelation between caliper piston surface area and master cylinder surface area, the larger the difference, master cylinder being the smaller, the more brake pad pressure generated.
I can see you spending good money only to find your brake feels harder, but in fact you have less braking efficiency,and require more effort to achieve the same stopping distances.
Your choice mate, just trying to save you wasting money on the wrong parts.

Offline wurzel

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2019, 21:16:51 »
Watch this, I had to go find something to back up my opinion, trying to ensure you get good advice, thank me later..... :fix: :angry-banghead:

Offline joethebike

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Re: Anyone toyed with putting DL1000 brakes on a DL650 or improving ??
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2019, 23:42:15 »
To get back to the original question about improving the 650 brakes, my experience suggests you ignore the tech talk about master cylinder size and just buy some adapters from SV Racing and some suitable 4 piston calipers and, like me, enjoy much better stopping power and feel while still using the stock master cylinder.
Honestly the difference in stopping power is chalk and cheese compared with the stock 2 piston caliper.