Author Topic: DL1000 forks on a 650 (Read 10537 times)

Hondaman · « **on:** January 03, 2017, 22:14:29 »

It's been mentioned before (once by me more recently by someone else), searching the 'net reveals little re the swap.

Anyway, curiosity got the better of me - will they fit, will they work, will the cartridge forks of the 1k be an improvement over the glee?
The main thing to potentially cause issue is the oe oil lock but no worries, the item off the 1k forks is exactly the same dimension as the 650 where it locates into the fork lower.

First was a set of bent glee forks that someone offered me (I bought a used complete glee rear wheel & tyre off a breaker & the bent forks were all he had left of the bike, he offered them for 'scrap' value).
I then dropped onto some sensibly priced DL1000 forks that were fairly clean and more importantly, straight.

Basically, it's a simple straight swap. All the DL1000 bits mount straight onto the glee lowers, once fitted, the only visual difference is the non - adjustable fork caps of the 1k forks.

Damper rod of the glee vs cartridge damping of the 1k.

Bent glee stanchion is exactly the same length of the 1k, the glee stanchions have different internals & valving at the lower end so cannot be used with cartridges (unless you butcher them to remove tye valving).

All built up, old 1k lowers on the left, 1k stanchions & internals fitted to glee lowers on the right.

I was secretly hoping the 1k forks had been breathed upon by the likes of Maxton et al, afraid not, all looked stock, even the springs. Oh well...
On the flip side, all internals & bushings looked in good order.

Lets see if they are better/worse or just different from the stock 650 setup.

greywolf · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2017, 22:58:23 »

It's good to know the Vee fork tubes and internals fit directly into the Glee fork legs. They'll probably fit the Wee fork legs too then. The fork legs won't swap due to the different axle sizes and possible other difficulties, like the Wee speedo sensor, but the tubes and internals fitting the legs on different models is something I've never seen confirmed before. Thanks for the information.

Hondaman · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2017, 07:28:36 »

All in the name of research GW

TLPower · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2017, 15:32:16 »

Very nice work Hondaman. Did you fit emulators or were you thinking about it?You've probably opened a can of worms, all that adjustment coupled with different air gaps and grades of oil should keep you occupied.

This is my present project

greywolf · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2017, 16:34:05 »

Cartridge emulators are for damper rod forks only. The change to Vee internals means the forks are cartridge type rather than damper rod type. Something like Race-Tech Gold valves to replace the stock valves would be an appropriate upgrade for a cartridge fork, not emulators.

Hondaman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2017, 17:24:47 »

TL, GW has it covered.

I have fitted Ricor Intiminators (a different way to achieve a similar thing to Gold Valve Emulators (not to be mistaken for Gold Valves) to my stock damper rods, they make a brilliant improvement to stability & handling and pretty much eliminate fork dive under braking - and that's with the stock dive prone springs.
I am suffering a bit of harshness over small potholes, cobbles etc which is rather annoying as I tune into such things (and a bit like yourself, a bit of a habbitual fiddler....) the ride quality only became annoying after fitting the otherwise brilliant B'stone A40s.
The obvious/easy/cheap/quick solution would be to fit different tyres......

The springs out of the bent forks had 2 1/2'' of the soft section cut off which gets rid of the soft mushy sag & feel good.

The DL1000 fork internals as mentioned are proper cartridge forks, so 'theoretically' infinately better than damper rods as both the compression & rebound damping is controlled by a shim stack rather than just pushing oil through fixed holes.

I'm hoping to get them fitted tonight then a decent ride to Newark classic bike show one day this weekend so will report back.

I may drill the compression holes on my existing damper rods ala GVE as I now have a spare set of damper rods from the bent forks.

Neat pioes btw

TLPower · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2017, 19:08:41 »

That's cleared that up then. Please excuse my lack of understanding regarding damper rod and cartridge forks. More reading methinks.....

The top collector with the extra pipes is the mod I'm on with. The Nail uses a modified Aprilia collector, I was looking at fatrats new system and noticed a longer balance pipe. Googling led me to the extra pipes on the Aprilia boosting the midrange by 10bhp.....Should work on the TL engined Cagiva then shouldn't it?

kwackboy · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2017, 20:10:33 »

Nice write up..

, it's good to know you can swap the legs over . I'd looked into this a while ago as I was thinking of fitting a 17inch front wheel from an SV650.
I wanted to do a complete wheel swap to make my Vee into a "super moto" with a smaller 120/17 section front wheel and a wider 160/180/17 section real wheel but as it turns out the rear wheel swap was a bit of a mission so I shelved the idea until I can come up with a solution.

Hondaman · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2017, 21:35:46 »

OK, forks fitted.
Blimey they have some sag! Especially that they are from a bigger, heavier, more powerful bike. New spacers 15mm longer gets it about right.
Hopefully I'll get a decent run this weekend & report back.

SuzukiSte · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2017, 21:46:18 »

Boy that's quick work Hondaman ????

.

Hondaman · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2017, 21:59:19 »

Cheers but I don't have time to dilly about.
The wife is on 2-10 shift this week and knows nothing of it.....
I have between 7pm when the little 'one goes down until 10 pm to get done & cleaned up, back in, with a glass of wine & my feet up pretending I've been watching Shed & Buried all evening

Next week is 6-2, so I'm buggered for dodgy garage meddling (but it's great for getting deliveries under the radar

)

Rusty Nuts · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2017, 21:59:39 »

Did you factor in Christmas when calculating for sag?

Hondaman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2017, 22:21:57 »

Yep, would've only needed 10mm extra preload 2 weeks ago!

Hondaman · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2017, 13:00:10 »

Well, the fork work was definitely worthwhile

TLPower · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2017, 19:55:09 »

Mmmmm what size are the Strom cartridge jobbies. The Nail is fitted with 45mm Marzocchi piston rod front forks. How much of a job would it be to swap the Strom cartridge set up with the Cagiva springs into the Cagiva lowers?

greywolf · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2017, 20:12:57 »

Strom tubes are 43mm. They won't fit a 45mm setup.

Hondaman · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2017, 22:16:47 »

TL, what are piston rod jobbies, are they the same as damper rods?

While 43mm stanchions from a DL1000 obviously won't fit, many stock fork cartridge units are the same basic design & have a 20mm piston (obviously the shimming varies & the cartridge design has changed over the years)
I do have a spare butchered cartridge unit from an old vfr (the basic design from an early '90s vfr is the same as a DL1000 from early '00s) that I can send over if you want to check dimensions etc?
It won't be any use as such but you will get an idea of compatibility before splashing out...?

Hondaman · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2017, 22:36:07 »

Re the cartridge forks from the 1k....

The ride is now much more composed and plusher than any variant of the 650 forks that I have tried, particularly since fitting the rock hard but otherwise brilliant A40 tyres, gone is the harsh thumping over potholes or the jittery feeling over heavily painted rumble strips.
You can still feel pothoes & sunken manhole covers but they are very much softened & feel more rounded - much more composed and less harsh.

I'm sure a professional setup/respring/revalve would give much greater improvements but as a relatively cheap & simple drop in replacement, it does the job just great.

I've yet to try a 'spirited' twisty road run out to properly test the handling (arather than the ride quality) I may try 15mm more fork oil or the firmer chopped down glee fork springs in due course but at the moment I'm happy.
An unexpected bonus is the rear shock feels better too.

I paid £20 for the knackered/bent glee forks & £55 for the complete DL1000 forks (although the lowers had a snapped bolt or two & one stanchion does have a bit of pitting in the chrome towards the end of the stroke, so may need rechroming in due course).

I can't believe no one has done it before...

Edit,
If the 1000 forks are higher spec/better quality than the 650, is the DL1000 shock also a better unit than that fitted to the 650s.....?
Does anyone have a good 1k shock spare for research purposes?

greywolf · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2017, 00:19:22 »

The shock on the 650 mixes gas and oil in a single chamber. The 1000 shock has a floating piston separating the two for better metering of the oil for damping. Most people reporting on a suspension improvement at one end say that points out the shortcomings of the other unimproved end.

The consensus of Vee vs Wee front ends is normally that the Vee is a better design but with poorer execution. The cartridge allows separate damping adjustments for compression and rebound but the stock damping rates, though better controlled, are not very well chosen. Maybe the oil you used makes the damping rate better than stock.

Hondaman · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2017, 08:25:18 »

Does that mean the 1k shock actually performs better in the real world than the 650 shock?
I guess the trouble is finding a good 1k shock as they will all be of a certain age now.

Searching the forks, there is loads & loads of info (too much) re improving the 650 forks, everything from oil & spring changes to drop in valving to full on cartridge internals.
There seems to be much less info re the 1k forks - the usual spring & oil change, the odd gold valve conversion and that's about it, this could mean less 1k's on the road or, their owners are generally happier with the stock setup.

Re fork oil, I mixed 75/25, some little used, clean oe Suzuki fork oil (10w?) With some 5w that I had lying about to give something around 7wt.