Author Topic: Brake Caliper Balls-Up (Read 22629 times)

tallpaul · « **Reply #40 on:** February 20, 2014, 16:07:26 »

Quote from: "Descolada"

You should know once this job has been done and I'm back on the road - cause the heavens will open for the next two weeks (sorry in advance).

It's actually going to snow, as I'm taxing my bike from the beginning of March!

Sorry to hear of all the faffing about you have been put to. At least you can see light at the end of the tunnel.

Descolada · « **Reply #41 on:** February 20, 2014, 17:14:08 »

Quote from: "tallpaul"

Sorry to hear of all the faffing about you have been put to. At least you can see light at the end of the tunnel.

It's just frustrating more than anything, as others have pointed out it's adding to my knowledge of the bike so that's good experience.

Descolada · « **Reply #42 on:** February 21, 2014, 15:45:36 »

So it turns out that there has been a run on brake caliper piston sets as advertised on the Suzuki "Bike of the Month" page. So much so that these orders are now on 'back order' waiting for new deliveries direct from Japan (or so says the bloke at Redcar Motorcycles). I may have started to get a little less cheery than usual at this news (my bike has now been off the road for over two weeks FFS)

Meaning an on-going "7-10 days until Suzuki acknowledge the shortage and supply more".

I decided to call Cupar Suzuki and tell them the whole sordid story in the hope that they could help out. Alan in the parts department did some calling about for me but came back with the same information - nobody has a supply at the main dealers at the moment. He suggested that I might get somewhere calling some of the bigger parts stockists directly and gave me a couple of names along with their telephone numbers.

Great customer support there.

My first call struck gold. I called Crooks Suzuki in Barrow-in-Furness and asked about the part number and whether they had anything. Yes the bloke said, "we have one set left, but I don't know when the next supply will arrive". Together we double checked the part number against the AK9 and confirmed the part was indeed correct. An interesting fact emerged at this point. That part number isn't for a single piston and seals but is in fact a set for each caliper - meaning I had already doubled up on my order requirement. I had seen no mention of this and the Suzuki page showed an image of a single piston and seal set.

He was very good natured about this because I asked him to check this on three occasions - apologizing profusely all the way

"I recon what's happened is that everyone has seen this deal and bought at a rate that has caught Suzuki out" he said, "I'm not surprised because I have seen seal set's alone for more than that!".

Naturally I jumped on the last set, and to top it off he matched the deal Suzuki was offering so I got them the parts for the same price.

Looks like I will have spares once all the parts arrive..... now where's that blinkin postman?

Descolada · « **Reply #43 on:** February 22, 2014, 17:10:43 »

The postman arrived this morning and brought Suzuki presents. Enough to complete the rebuild of both front calipers. I have spent the day doing this and both calipers are back on the bike and looking shiny.

Now the problem.

I have approached the bleeding of the brakes as if the system is completely empty (which it pretty much is). I have run through four complete reservoir refills and numerous swaps between the nearside and offside calipers while bleeding. There have been some impressive belches along the way but both sides now run clean and clear of bubbles. Yet the brake lever is horrible. It moves full 1&1/4 inch before it starts to engage the brakes and even then it's not good.

Both calipers are engaging when the brake lever is pulled all the way back and releasing when it's let off. If I take the bike off the stand it is effective enough to make the forks dip when engaged, but still it has a huge amount of play before the brakes engage.

I am expecting the brakes to be a little soft having changed the complete set on the front but this is excessive. I have even tried adjusting the brake lever setting (on the adjuster) to see if that makes any sizable difference, but all to no avail.

If someone brought this to me and said "what do you think?" I would say there was air in the system, but both sides run clear and there are no more bubbles (not even little ones).

I have packed it in for the day as the clouds have rolled over and the heavens openned, but I could do with a little advice please. I am starting to think that getting a Mytivac might have been a sensible way to go with a system this drained.

Locky · « **Reply #44 on:** February 22, 2014, 17:21:32 »

Tie the lever back to the bars and leave overnight (use a large zip tie), the air will work it's way to the top overnight .
I use a vacuum bleeder and it draws the fluid out of the bleed nipples but you could do the same with a big syringe . I've never failed to bleed a brake system using a vac bleeder .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/19087901 ... =95&ff19=0

KLV-Rider · « **Reply #45 on:** February 22, 2014, 17:28:12 »

Quote from: "Locky"

Tie the lever back to the bars and leave overnight.

+1

Juvecu · « **Reply #46 on:** February 22, 2014, 17:40:44 »

+1 just, pump it until it gets stiff then tie it back. I use a cable tie, works a treat.

Descolada · « **Reply #47 on:** February 22, 2014, 19:09:40 »

Thanks blokes, I will ties back the lever and leave overnight. Will post an update in the morning.

Jacko · « **Reply #48 on:** February 22, 2014, 19:18:35 »

Yeah, there's still air in there, most likely an airlock somewhere, tie the lever back as suggested. Air pockets can be buggers to remove, but there are many techniques to try if no joy with the lever.

tallpaul · « **Reply #49 on:** February 22, 2014, 20:56:06 »

Excuse my ignorance but how does tieing it back help? Don't you want the air bubbles to pass into the reservoir, or am I reading it wrong?

Andy M · « **Reply #50 on:** February 22, 2014, 21:14:33 »

Pulling back the lever connects the reservoir to the rest of the circuit. The air bubbles working their way into the reservoir is what you want , the air in their is open not trapped and compressing.

Andy

Robotstar5 · « **Reply #51 on:** February 22, 2014, 21:20:07 »

Quote from: "Locky"

I use a vacuum bleeder and it draws the fluid out of the bleed nipples but you could do the same with a big syringe . I've never failed to bleed a brake system using a vac bleeder .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/19087901 ... =95&ff19=0

I find a big syringe usually works, back brakes can be a problem due to the routing of the hose, worse one I had ended up removing it completely and hanging on garage wall overnight to remove the air bubbles

tallpaul · « **Reply #52 on:** February 22, 2014, 21:28:13 »

Quote from: "Andy M"

Pulling back the lever connects the reservoir to the rest of the circuit. The air bubbles working their way into the reservoir is what you want , the air in their is open not trapped and compressing.

Andy

I thought pulling back the lever sealed off the reservoir? The circuit wouldn't pressurise otherwise and apply the brakes. I know when I have reverse bled brakes you don't pull the lever as it stops the air escaping. I just thought this was a similar principle.

Juvecu · « **Reply #53 on:** February 22, 2014, 21:45:12 »

Tying the handle down under pressure is done to seal the system. The air is less dense than the brake fluid so it goes to the top. When you then release the lever the air should be at the reservoir and bubble up into it.

tallpaul · « **Reply #54 on:** February 22, 2014, 21:46:50 »

Cheers Juvecu! I always like to learn. Thanks for explaining.

Juvecu · « **Reply #55 on:** February 22, 2014, 21:49:05 »

I should've added that I think that is the case, I'm not sure, it does seem plausible enough

Yoyo · « **Reply #56 on:** February 23, 2014, 07:07:41 »

I've found using a syringe and reverse bleeding the caliper to be really effective. You bed up pushing the air out of the caliper replacing it with fluid.
With the lever tied back the air travels to the top of the system but won't escape until you release the zip tie and the lever moves forward

Well done on the rebuild, a tough one due to postage/stock problems but at least you know you can do it and will have a better insight into how to clean and maintain your brakes.

KLV-Rider · « **Reply #57 on:** February 23, 2014, 07:34:44 »

I bet it gives a big satisfying belch this morning!.

wal750 · « **Reply #58 on:** February 23, 2014, 09:37:58 »

Sometimes tapping the lines as you bleed can also help. +1 for tying the lever back, I do this on my bikes from time to time even if no brake maintenence has been carried out and it always gives a good lever feel. You can normally do the rear brake by jamming a piece of wood between the lever and engine casing

Descolada · « **Reply #59 on:** February 23, 2014, 11:13:57 »

Good Morning.

Last night I left the lever pulled all the way back and tied off. The reservoir was full and this morning it is about 3/4 full. I let off the cable tie and tentatively tried the lever - BINGO!

The lever pulls back to where it should have pulled back to before I started this task- Job done.

Thanks for all your help folks, much appreciated.

I suspected this was going to work because when I came down this morning it was blowing with very high winds, making a road test a little dodgy

Having photo'ed and logged much of this process I am going to post a round up report in a little while as an example of my experience with a first time caliper rebuild, in the hope that it will help others who may find themselves in the same situation. For now I am going to wait and see if the wind will die down so I can go for a ride.

I also decided to spend 19 quid and invest in a Mityvac-like reverse bleeder because this is bound to happen again at some point (if not on this bike, then the next). I chose this one if anyone else is interested. http://goo.gl/c25R7x - As an aside I have just used "Google URL Shortner" for the first time to create that link (the longer ones are a pain and prone to getting wrong on a retype).