Suzuki V-Strom (VStrom) Owners Club DL250, DL650, DL1000 & DL1050
V-Strom specific discussion => V-Strom specific discussion => Topic started by: STORMY on April 26, 2021, 23:36:04
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This evening I went for a ride and once again right out of the blue, the bike stalled on a low speed right hand turn after moving from a stop at a junction, on narrow residential roads. I just about held the dam thing up, this has happened before literally only about 3 or 4 times over the space of 12 months. It’s difficult to tell if the low RPM assist stops working and catches me out, or it’s malfunctioning and causing the issue, or something else entirely?
This is an actual thing having checked around the net and I was wondering if anybody else has suffered from the same problem / remedy - other than selling it?
Personally if there was a switch to turn it off, it would be off
I should point out the bike had been warmed up before riding, and this took place about a quarter of a mile after starting out.
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Nice to hear something's never change! Mine is the older 2014 1000 and it done this all the time, me and the wife ended up in a heep in an car park because of it. I almost sold it but I was going to loose a fortune. Anyway a x-tre helped no end to smooth it out then a new ecu a year later and it's not done it since. I would still be careful though when the engine is cold.
Don't think I've seen anything about a tre fitted to the 17 on models, maybe look into this or a boosterplug. Failing that I'm sure a power commander or reflash would sort it out but neither are cheap.
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Sounds like the best way to treat that system is to work on the premise that you don't have it: more revs & slip clutch as we've all had to learn.
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@ Porter, not just me then, I think if I’d been two up we’d have definitely hit the deck a real confidence loser sadly.
@ Mr Nick That’s the obvious solution, but when it happens I’m already giving it a normal throttle, I’m not going to change that consciously because riding a bike / driving a car is something we don’t think about - we just do it unless you’re really going for it - and that’s when it nails you.
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I have low RPM assist on my SV and it works a treat I can pull away from a standing start with my right had off the bar although the handbook does not mention it at all. Check your tickover speed is within the range shown in your handbook as I suspect ( but don't know for sure) the low RPM assist system regulates minimum RPM to the tickover speed.
Maybe visit your local dealer, if they are any good, and have a chat with the workshop folk.
Sorry to hear your story - easy for an intermittent fault like that you dump you in the road and then hide out of sight for weeks to catch you again later. If you can get enough owners with the same problem together then contact Suzuki and demand action. If as you say it is a "thing" then it needs a recall.
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@ Brockett It’s idling speed is spot on I’m fairly sure this is electronic when the engine cuts there is zero warning and it cuts dead, the overall performance of the bike in all other aspects is excellent. The problem is replicating the fault, it’s very sporadic I’m not sure a dealer would find it unless they can somehow plug the bike in and detect it from stored information? Although in the end it’s probably going to end up in a dealers or on Autotrader, if doesn’t send me under a bus in the meantime lol.......
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Can you remember what road speed, what revs and what gear this happens?
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Is it always on a slow speed turn? Maybe turning the bars?
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@ Rusty N - always under 20 mph, around 3000 or less (guessing here because I’m looking at the road etc), typically pulling off from rest normal riding. Just to add some contrast - decelerating from high speed on the A27 (dual carriageway) in preparation for a roundabout. Speed dropping to around 25mph (heavy traffic), banked over, I got the gearing totally wrong (too higher a gear), the bike happily chucked away no misfiring back on the straight opened up - perfect
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@ Gassoon Crossed my mind especially following the fitting of bar backs, but it does seem to happen on right and left hand turns
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I had my bike cut out starting off in 1st about a mile from home. I shrugged thinking I haven't stalled the bike setting off for such a long time. It was seeing this thread that I was reminded of low RPM assist being a function of my new bike.....or not.
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Stormy this is exactly how my bike was from new. It would stall just about 2200rpm and cough into the airbox regularly but not stall. Might only stall once every few weeks but always at the wrong time. Dealer was useless but the bikes where only out then.
Through this forum I learned other folk where having the same issues and that a x-tre helped, there where no power commanders etc back then for the new model. I was for selling mine but was losing 3k so tried the tre and all has been well since.
I thought all this was fixed on the 2017 face lifted bikes, seems there's still the odd rouge bike out there.
Look into the tre for your year model or get a boosterplug, I know they make one for the 17. There both not overly expensive and might work fine for you, if not Ebay them on for something back. I hope you get to the bottom of it.
Ps didn't you have the bike apart recently? Any chance you missed something? Just a thought.
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So this afternoon I went for a 100 mile shakedown of the bike following a recent service / rad off etc., just seeing if my handiwork was up to it - leaks etc. I’ve also dispensed with chain wax and brake cleaner in favour of paraffin and gear oil (this is how I cleaned chains 40 years ago) much kinder to the chain (felt smoother).
I rode the bike hard & fast, slow & easy on a variety of roads motorways/urban/A&B roads - tested the RPM assist I.e. no throttle / clutch only on a quiet country lane going up a slight incline - faultless absolutely nothing went wrong. No missing or fluffing, high gear low rev pick up perfect.
It hasn’t gone away (I suspect), so for now I’ll be changing how I ride from rest especially when it’s cold. It is bloody annoying because when the bike runs like it did today you realise how good they are :auto-dirtbike:
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@ Porter I nearly purchased a Booster Plug about a year ago mainly to try and solve the snatchy low speed character of the bike (runs lean) - I might go for one of those or a TRE. I think everything I did on the bike checks out after today’s ride it was after all basic service items, and everything seems to be working just fine.
Appreciate your feedback / suggestions by the way :thumb:
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I had a similar issue on my K8 650, it turned out the TPS was slightly out of spec.
after I changed the TPS no further problems in the last 12,000 Kms or so.
might be worth a look :shrug:
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@ Ian P, On the later model 1000 that’s a dealer only check re the TPS I did ask the dealer to check last September (MOT Time) - he said they rarely go out of sync on the later models but would check.......hmm
I think if it was out I’d probably experience some other issues but the bike really does run rather well - apart from this.
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A thought, which may or may not be relevant, from which year and on which model V-Strom was the ABS cornering / lean function introduced? Perhaps something similar to https://motofomo.com/motorcycles-with-cornering-abs-imu/. Could it be that there is too much braking drag, caused by the ABS cornering system, enough to stall the motor?
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I think it's important that all these issues get reported to Suzuki via a dealership. Even if the mechanics say they can't find anything wrong, insist Suzuki are made aware so if there's lots of people with the same issue they will do something about it. This sounds similar to the issues on the 2014+ 1000, which eventually led to ECU swaps.
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@ Gert my bike was literally one of the first DL1000’s to have cornering ABS, first registered May 17 it was P&H’s demo bike (when I purchased it in 2019 it had only covered just over 200 miles in a two year period, so not very popular). Fairly sure this isn’t the issue because I’m not touching brakes, so slowing down to turn right or left I’ve never experienced a problem - it’s always from rest probably at around 10’ish mph on a shallow turn.
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@ UK_VStrom 650 - I agree, but the cynic in me says that Suzuki already know about this and providing the numbers aren’t massive they’ll keep quiet and save money.
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I’ve taken Porters advice and ordered a Booster Plug, if nothing else it may improve some of the slow speed characteristics of these bikes.
Here’s a bloke I watch on YT he’s owned two V Strom 1000’s and he explains the reasoning behind why he doesn’t own one now, you’ll have to discount his views on tyres because that’s easy to remedy (although I agree the OEM rubber ain’t the best).
https://youtu.be/pUCpSOEskSs
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Well that arrived quickly
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Does that Booster plug dodab thing fool the ECU into thinking it's still cold and slightly richen the mixture ?
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Brockett - spot on, but if you’re operating a steady throttle I.e. cruising along it doesn’t have any effect (apparently). I bought this to try and even out the slow speed performance - but I’m hoping it will also assist with the slow speed stall which of course only reveals itself once in a blue moon so that might take a bit longer to say it’s been cured. Anyway if it’s a pile of snake oil you get 4 weeks to return it so based on recommendations I’ll give it a whirl..........
It’ll also give me a chance to check the coolant level again (tank off) following a recent refresh - but I think I got all of the air out of the system.
Once fitted I’ll come back and report on it, if anybody’s interested?
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:eusa-doh: I do enjoy a good faffing yarn.
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Aren’t they just the best :grin:
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Yes please do report back. I don't think I'll fit one as I'm not wanting to spend anymore money now on my bike but I'd like to know if it works.
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All fitted didn’t take long at all - test ride later/tomorrow
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It might just be the electrical spade connection at the clutch lever. Mine became detached last year making the gear changing erratic. I can’t remember if it affected the rev lift. If it’s connected (unlike how I found mine) it could need cleaning or the connection made tighter.
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@Joy Strom, I had a look disconnected and gave the connection a spray of GT85 but to be honest it looked pristine, always worth a check though :thumb:
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Okay I finally gave this Booster Plug thing a bit of a go, I deliberately chose today’s rush hour plenty of stop start traffic on the M27 / A32 & some full throttle on that private road we all know.........with the winds of hell blowing off the Solent :dl_hyperhysteria:
When you first take off I didn’t think it was working, because old habits etc., compensating for the low speed off / on throttle. So at just over 2000rpm I forced it to do its stuff, off and on the throttle in second third and fourth gears it’s noticeably smoother. You’ve still got engine braking, but instead of instantly kicking in, you’re given probably 1 to 1.5 seconds before it starts to engine brake. The result is a much smoother less jerky ride (although not totally eliminated).
Up shifts under fair acceleration also snick in a lot cleaner than before / even clutchless - although as a rule I wouldn’t normally do that.
From over 100mph in 5th if you close the throttle abruptly, it’s a much smoother slow down on the over run.
That’s about it really, will it cure my stalling problem no idea, but so far so good.
Don’t buy a BP if you’re expecting a performance increase because I couldn’t detect any change, but it’s definitely smoother in the low rev range - not perfect, but improved enough to justify its existence.
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:thumb: cheers for the report, Stormy
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Yes thanks for the report, good to know its worked a bit to smooth the bike out, only time will tell if it helps with the stalling issue.
To help more try a G2 throttle tamer, I have one on mine, helps with that first pick up of the throttle. I enjoy spending your money!! Good luck
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@ Porter I can’t spend anymore.........what’s that you say, a throttle tamer lol.
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lol That has to be one for the quotes museum. lol
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I know wishful thinking lol
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Oh well it didn’t cure the stalling - today’s stalls took place at the local Shell petrol station with a full tank of V Power, superb save by yours truly (I was ready for it). The second stall was slap bang in the middle of a yellow box junction..........nice.
Next week I’ve got a test ride booked - the new KTM Super Adventure 1290s - lets see how good their offer is?
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Oh dear that is a pity, I really thought the boosterplug would cure that. I know that stalling is a pain literally, we ended up in a heap because of it and many close calls to. Luckily for me the x-tre fixed it or I would have sold the bike also.
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I still think the BP was a worthwhile purchase it really does make the bike far more enjoyable to ride :thumb:
I’m just checking out my options part ex trade in value or approach Suzuki and find out if they’re prepared to investigate & repair - if it is the ECU they’re the thick end of £900 (I think), and then sell privately or shock horror keep it lol.
But one things for sure sooner or later I’m going to drop it if I just leave it.
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Disappointing result to say the least. I'm begining to think Suzuki don't deserve customers like us.
According to my local Suzuki dealer three years ago "KTMs are too radical and a bit fragile". In the last year or so he has become a KTM dealer and his shop is full of them. I've not yet asked him what has changed.
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@ Brockett When my bike continued to stall after fitting the BP I did get that “expensive” feeling in the pit of my stomach. But I’ll reserve judgment on Suzuki and in fairness give them the chance to correct the issue, it’s not what I expect at such a low mileage I’m fairly sure it’s electronic - probably a black box failing somewhere. Now it’s down to liability (if that is the case) and a dealer telling me “we can’t find anything wrong” because they can’t afford to tie up a mechanics time waiting for this fault to appear........
KTM’s radical and fragile sounds like my ex Italian wife who got traded for a Scandinavian model :grin:
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I'd try a TRE (Timing Retard Eliminator), it certainly cleans things up on my old K7 1000 and combined with syncing the throttle bodies has cured erratic idle and the odd 'cough' at low RPM.
Mine's on RJS Superbikes' dyno in two weeks time for them to tweak the fuelling with their Yoshi box - with a K&N filter and TRE it should be as good as it's ever going to be.
I test rode a 2021 1050XT the other week and I noticed the low RPM assist, I didn't particularly like the feature.
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@ Pete O Tube I’ve read good things about the TRE but I’m not spending another penny on this bike. Just to be clear though my bike ran / runs flawlessly no missing or coughing, zero performance issues and now even slow speed riding around town is a pleasure following the installation of a BP.
The very slow speed engine cut out is electronic and my suspicions are the ECM sensor is failing.
I’ve written to Suzuki HQ asking if they are prepared to investigate at their expense before I escalate further.
I’m fairly confident they will assist.
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Nothing like confidence in your own drive to resolve this, but it is a 4 year old bike now, that you bought as the 2nd owner two years ago, and long outside any warranty period Suzuki would entertain I fear, regardless of mileage. Good luck with it though.
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@Mr Nick The phrase p I s s I n g into the wind does spring to mind but God loves a trier :thumb:
I’ve already had a reply from somebody called Natalie who in fairness to herself did refer my somewhat technical email to their technical dept (good start).
They confirm as follows (paraphrasing)
There are no ECM issues with the age / model of bike I own.
They go onto say that home servicing may mean that some items may need checking / adjusting with ‘the’ diagnostic device available at Suzuki dealerships (they’re talking about the SMS software I think).
They’ve offered no other assistance which I expected, so I guess I’ll be booking it in hopefully nothing to expensive, but if it does transpire the ECM has failed and they don’t shift on their position - I’ll go to a small claims court it’s worth a punt.
I have taken both Skoda & Mercedes to court in the past on vehicles out of warranty and won both times (although I had them serviced professionally which may have helped).
My stance is simple: a black box should last a minimum of 5 years, that’s not unreasonable it’s not a service item or a serviceable item, at this mileage it really shouldn’t fail.
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It's easier to pursue a claim for a defined failure that has been positively diagnosed as faulty within an unreasonably sort period or due to negligence. It took me a year to sort out Evans Halshaw's amateur bodge of a warranty repair on a car a few years ago. It was pretty clear - the diff failed and knocked a hole in the casing, which they just got welded up badly, and then managed to put the clutch friction plate in backwards causing it to fail a few months later, but outside the warranty period. The weld was so bad that the revised clutch design wouldn't fit without hitting the patch. Neither Trading Standards nor the court understood the technical side of what I was pursuing, even at that basic level, and that really hampered the case, and we ended up at a compromise position eventually.
With the gearbox issue you'd posted elsewhere, there was a clearly identified component failure and that didn't get very far, so an intermittent hesitation that has no defined cause, on a system that you've made alterations to using non-approved aftermarket parts, is another big step up in difficulty level. Have you found anyone in the wider community who has managed to pin this down to a specific sensor or control unit yet?
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There’s no doubt about it in my mind that ultimately I’m probably on a hiding to nothing, I understand fully without a defined failure my chances of winning are slim at best.
I think though, first of all I have to give a dealer a fair go of at least trying to isolate the problem. A good tech with experience on V Stroms might know exactly where to look and what to do, if it’s adjustment or some other components that are expected to wear out I have got no problem whatsoever with that - it’s called tough luck and I’ll be paying no doubt through the nose but that’s life as they say.
I think the bloke with the failed gearbox wouldn’t pursue it, he’d had enough (his words) , to me that rings alarm bells something we’re not aware of perhaps?
I have confidence in the way my bike has been maintained, it really is pampered and afforded a degree of mechanical sympathy. The after market Booster Plug was fitted long after the fault appeared, and can be removed without trace in 30 or so minutes (that’s why I didn’t go for a TRE which involved wire cutting).
Unfortunately I haven’t found a similar issue on line etc apart from the YT bloke who’s vid I posted earlier in this thread, that fault was intermittent and very similar to my own, especially where he talks about the bike flopping at low speed. Elsewhere, where a stalling issue seems to exist it’s fairly consistent and can be reproduced at will allowing the owner to identify more readily.
I’ve attached the official reasons from the workshop manual (but these are attributed to frequent stalling). Ominously ECM and other assorted sensors pop up frequently, but I do not have any error codes showing, so I’m hopeful at this point in time.
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Did you try a few tank fulls with injector cleaner added to the fuel? ( sorry in advance if you've already dealt with this issue). I had a Harley that played up at low revs and bottle of injector cleaner did sort it out and saved a strip down. However I too have a similar issue with my car . A Honda Jazz ( yeah I know) it sits at tickover just fine but sometimes as I let the clutch bite the reves rise as I press down on the accelerator and then it just dies and the car stalls. Not every time, not everyday or every week, but just know and again just annoy me. It's a weak, flat spot just 50 to 100rpm off tickover. I think it's in the emissions testing zone, but what do I know? Good luck chasing Suzuki.
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Thanks Brockett, your Jazz seems to mimic my bike of course in a car it’s just annoying as we both know. I’m fairly certain it’s not fuel but I may be applying old rules of thumb here I.e. fuel = a slower engine cut, electronic / electrical = an instant stop......there is zero warning, so I’m guessing it is sensor related. But to answer your Q directly no injector cleaner added to date.
You know one thing has reared it’s head which I’m trying hard not to give any credence to........
Last September it went into my local Suzuki dealer for an MOT and I asked them to try and trace a fairly pronounced rattle. Meanwhile I took out a 1050 for a road test I was gone for about an hour, I arrived back at the dealers my bike has been “done” according to the youth on the desk. Went to collect my paperwork / pay etc and this is what I was told.
The rattle / graunching noise could be coming from the bar backs fitted, we also tightened up your crash bars (remember that bit). I looked on in dismay with my don’t be silly face and asked for my MOT docs..........long pause oh we haven’t done that......sorry.
My bike is quickly taken out back again MOT’d and they tell me off about stretching brake hoses (I think I mentioned it on here). Anyway I pay and leave and the rattle...........is still there loud and proud. I could have turned around but by this time had lost the will to live.
Annoyed and with some time on my hands I found the problem etc......
But thinking about it my bike never stalled before the MOT, and almost immediately afterwards it started acting up - odd don’t you think?
Picture of missing bolt from the CRASH BARS :icon_exclaim:.
So this dealer owes me some workshop time and I’ll be reminding them of that when I book it in, the boss is already aware after a quiet word in his shell when I bought an oil filter off them.
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If you ever decide you want to try a TRE without cutting wires or spending money then let me know and I'll post you mine.
Came on the bike but I removed it, no power supply or anything, just plugs in line on the gear position sensor and removes just as easily.
Definitely go the Suzuki route first naturally but I won't ever re-fit, I like my Overdrive light too much ;)
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@ Rixington43 A very kind offer (and much appreciated thank you), but for now I’ll pass because I’m still trying to work out my next move, trade it, or keep it? I’m being seduced by KTM, but the expense is probably too steep for me this year (covid).
In sheer desperation I went out yesterday (again) with the sole intent of making the thing stall and failed dismally, in what was probably around 100 miles of urban riding (tedious), nothing happened, it just wouldn’t stall despite my best efforts. Self doubt I’m afraid started to creep into my mind on the ride home, maybe it’s the crap rider? :shrug:
On a positive the Booster Plug has made quite a difference to town riding, it’s allowing the bike to stay one gear higher and pull cleanly from 2000rpm, so that’s been a real win :thumb:
Booking it in after yesterday’s ‘failure to stall’ I’m fairly convinced will only produce a bill and little else, unless they can detect something electronically by hooking it up - but surly you’d get an error code or two then?
So maybe some more testing & checking today in a bid to get this thing to start failing consistently if the weather holds out, sadly the pleasure of riding has evaporated, always being in a state of high readiness at junctions / stop start traffic is hard work with your leg hanging out - I must look a right melt but it’s better than rolling around the deck I suppose.
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Once your faith has gone it's gone.
The Orange Order are always looking for new recruits. :whistle:
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@ Mr Power are you one of their recruiting agents, they are rather nice beasts............
That said today was again not a success (or a success depends how you view it). Not a hint of a stall, we had a meaningful chat in the New Forrest today it went something like.....if you don’t cut it out (I know bad choice of words) you’re gone lol
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Intermittent faults are worse than continuous / permanent ones. In my previous incarnation I was a textile machine maintenance spanner monkey. The number of times I got called to a machine, only to be told "it's not doing it now" stay there for a while, return to the workshop, get my book back out, light a cigarette and have a machine operator stick his head round the door - "it's doing it again." :angry-banghead:
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@ Rusty Nuts They are the worst of the worst but a great feeling when you finally solve it :dance:
I have to say the bike has never run better it’s outstanding at the moment (maybe the BP at work), :shrug: