Suzuki V-Strom (VStrom) Owners Club DL250, DL650, DL1000 & DL1050

Oily Rag - Dedicated to Pat, Greywolf. 26/06/45 - 04/06/18 => Oil/Lubrication => Topic started by: mrp192 on August 03, 2016, 12:00:39

Title: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: mrp192 on August 03, 2016, 12:00:39
Hi. I'm going to change my engine oil on my 2015 Glee. Have bought a Suzuki oil filter and drain bolt crush washer from a main dealer but wonder if I have been given the right washer?
From the name I was expecting a washer similar to the sealing washer on a spark plug that crushes up. However the one supplied is just a plain aluminium washer, is this correct?
Also just to confirm torque for drain bolt is 21 Nm? Is there a torque for the oil filter itself?
Thanks, Mark.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Moo on August 03, 2016, 13:17:36
The washer sounds about right, they're usually solid copper or aluminium, not like the ones on spark plugs.

I've never actually used a torque on the oil filter... don't know if there is one. Usually just feed it on my hand and tighten it up as tight as I can by hand
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Hondaman on August 03, 2016, 13:43:03
The solid alu washers are good enough to be reused multiple times :)
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: greywolf on August 03, 2016, 15:19:26
I like the aluminum or copper flat washers better than the Suzuki ones that actually crush and can deposit a sliver in between the drain plug and the sump. I would get a flat washer by asking for a Honda part. Make sure you get the old crush washer off the drain plug. It usually nearly disappears. You can replace the washer at every oil change as it is cheap but it's really good for dozens of changes.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: JonJo on August 03, 2016, 16:02:39
According to the Haynes manual torque setting for the oil filter is 20Nm.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: greywolf on August 03, 2016, 16:25:10
The genuine Suzuki oil filter spec is for two full turns after contact of the O-ring to the engine. The OEM filter has a soft, large cross section O-ring. All other brands will specify somewhere between hand tight to one turn. Check the manufacturer's spec.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: mrp192 on August 03, 2016, 17:21:02
Thank you to everyone, will now try and get it changed at the weekend.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: TravellingStrom on August 04, 2016, 12:25:22
I can honestly say after 3 Wees, 250,000km and multiple oil changes, I have never changed the crush washer and I have done 99% of oil changes.  As for the torque setting on the sump plug, no idea, I just do it up tight on a standard length(6-8") spanner and I don't lean on it.  I just check for leaks but never found one yet.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: mrp192 on August 13, 2016, 05:38:41
I didn't get my oil change done last weekend so hopefully today.
One last question that's occurred to me is should the oil be drained with my Glee on its side stand? Just thought as the side stand is standard has it been designed to drain fully like that as opposed to dead upright on the centre stand?
Hope this doesn't sound too stupid but mechanical novice and a little bit nervous!
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on August 13, 2016, 09:28:18
I drained mine on the centre stand, but you can use either. Warm the engine up before you start to help the oil drain out.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Hondaman on August 13, 2016, 11:34:08
Do both plus a little rock to get the last drops out.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: mr_diver on August 13, 2016, 15:46:21
Yeah warm her up, undo the drain bolt, let it drain, hold it vertical a bit then back on the side stand.
Repeat a few times to make sure.

On and off the centre stand will most likely end with 3lt of oil on the floor and an upturned bowl and lots of swearing.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: greywolf on August 13, 2016, 15:49:17
The drain is located forward and to the left in the sump so either stand will do a good job. Any difference will be of little significance.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Rich:-) on August 13, 2016, 17:42:20
For the crush washers for all of my bikes I just buy a pack of them from ebay. They don't need to be a set size, just as long as they fit over the bolt thread and are not bigger than the mating surfaces.
I generally pick one size that suits all.

I bought a pack of 10 alloy crusher washers for £4.99 delivered at the start of this year.
Each one will do loads oil changes if your careful when you tighten it down, so I don't envisage needing to buy anymore for many years to come.
10off solid copper ones are £3.99 delivered, a dealer will probably charge you that for one! :grin:

Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: TravellingStrom on August 16, 2016, 00:04:30
Make sure you replace the oil filter every time.  Suzuki says not, but why would you take out all the gungy oil in the sump, replace it with nice clean oil, but leave an oil filter full of cruddy oil to contaminate the new oil??  Never understood that one.

I always replace with an aftermarket filter, cost effective, but that's just me :)

As for draining, yep, either stand will do, warm up to at least single bar first, and shake out all that bad stuff :)
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Rich:-) on August 16, 2016, 09:23:53
I can add 2 counter arguments.

You never get all the old oil out of your engine on a standard oil & filter change..., so you must accept that there is going to be a small amount of old oil mixing with your new oil. Suzuki say "2.3L without filter, 2.7L with filter, 3.1 Litres after overhaul" for the wee.
So what we're actually faced with is a decision between 0.4 litres of old oil verses 0.8 litres of old oil.

Filter performance verses useable life.
I read on the web where some bloke looked into the different types of filter and how they work, using a new camera microscope their company had purchased. OEM & aftermarket filters are the folded paper type, which if looked at under a microscope are actually a random 3D lattice of fibers which give irregular holes of various shapes & sizes. This bloke measured a few and they seemed to range from 100 to 20 microns.
Anyway, the theory is that as a filter of this type gets used, more & more of the holes trap particles of dirt and thus more of the larger holes get partially or fully filled. If you graphed this out over time you would see that the flow starts to become more restricted but the average particle sizes getting through also reduces.
So, as the filter ages it gets better at filtering because it starts to trap more & more of the larger particles. This continues but at some point you draw a line because the flow restriction increases to the point that it would drop below minimum spec, so you change the filter before reaching this point. Suzuki may have calculated the optimal change point to every 3rd oil change and following this instruction might result in a cleaner engine with less wear.
 :grin:
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: greywolf on August 16, 2016, 17:36:11
As far as problem reports go, all the options mentioned work fine. I would say any energy spent on any facet of the subject is wasted, including this post as nobody is going to change what they do or think because of it.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: mrp192 on August 16, 2016, 18:59:41
Noted Greywolf but I appreciate everyone's advice. I know this is only a basic skill but it has given me the confidence to have a go.
In fact everything went smoothly until re-fitting the drain plug when it was obvious that the washer I had been given was much bigger than the old one. Unfortunately I didn't notice this until damaging the old one getting it off the bolt!
The Suzuki dealer I bought the bike from is now sending the correct part through the post, should have been here today but didn't turn up so hopefully tomorrow?
Anyway thank you to everyone for your patience and advice.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: mrp192 on August 20, 2016, 10:27:35
The washers finally arrived and oil changed yesterday. All seemed to go OK but noticed a small trace of emulsification on top of the oil once finished.
Could this be because the engine had to sit empty of oil, but sealed, for almost a week or because I only ran it for the 3 mins on, 3 mins off twice to check the oil level as per the owners book and didn't get it warm enough?
I have a long run planned for Monday and don't want to damage the engine. I'm hoping once it gets really hot this will disappear but is it safe to do so or should I 'bite the bullet' and buy some more oil and change it again and throw the new but contaminated oil away?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Hondaman on August 20, 2016, 11:14:43
A good run will clear it, no need to change the oil again.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: mrp192 on August 20, 2016, 11:46:50
Thanks, now found another entry about this so planning on leaving early and taking a lap of the Norwich inner ring road to get the engine properly warmed up before doing my trip.
I think I need to worry less and ride more! :dl_hyperhysteria:
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: bigsimmo on August 28, 2016, 14:00:14
The genuine Suzuki oil filter spec is for two full turns after contact of the O-ring to the engine. The OEM filter has a soft, large cross section O-ring. All other brands will specify somewhere between hand tight to one turn. Check the manufacturer's spec.

I have read this to, but don't you think its a bit over the top, I don't think I could get 2 full turns on the filter with out damage.
all the filters I have changed car, bike etc I have only ever done hand tight, how do you do your filter? and why does Suzuki say 2 turns, but Hello, I know nowt.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: greywolf on August 28, 2016, 15:10:36
The Suzuki filter has a different O-ring from any other filter I've ever seen and it gets compressed from round in cross section to flat when it is installed. Using the tool available from Suzuki or any oil filter tool of the proper size, it's easy to get 2 turns from initial contact. People have had success with less than two turns but I would be uneasy with less than the recommendation as the filter seal is so different. The most important thing it never to use 2 turns on any other filter as their seals are harder, smaller in cross section and usually flat to begin with though the Purolator ML16818 has a smaller, harder round cross section O-ring.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41J58i6gSuL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg)
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: bigsimmo on August 28, 2016, 22:33:48
good point, I did notice the O ring but I only did it up hand tight [very] I will have a good look at it, I have had no drips etc yet, but it is food for thought.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: mrp192 on August 28, 2016, 23:15:38
Following the advice on here I bought the tool from eBay for about £7 and marked the TDC as the o ring touched the crankcase. It then did turn just under two turns until my torque wrench indicated the 20 Nm specified so the advice is about right.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: greywolf on August 29, 2016, 00:42:43
Just an additional note, whenever installing a filter or any o-ring or rubber seal for that matter, lubricate the seal before installing it.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Rich:-) on August 29, 2016, 09:13:05
The last  'spin on' filter I bought/installed was a HiFlo brand and for my Hornet. I was pleasantly surprised to see it was pre-lubricated. It's has a clear plastic cover ring over the seal and was oily underneath. :)

Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Cam on August 29, 2016, 10:28:36
Quick question: what is the correct size of washer for a Glee? Can't seem to find it listed anywhere. Ta!
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: greywolf on August 29, 2016, 12:15:50
12mm hole.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Ianmc on August 29, 2016, 12:34:24
Take your plug to your nearest hydraulic hose supplier and ask for a "Dowty seal" to fit it.Peanuts to buy and they last for loads of oil changes.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Cam on August 29, 2016, 16:51:10
Thanks! Do I need a 17mm outer or 16.5mm? And should it be the flat type or the ring type?
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Ianmc on August 30, 2016, 00:02:43
It's a metal washer with a built in seal,get the size that only just clears the threads and it will self centre when you tighten the drain plug.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: bigsimmo on August 30, 2016, 16:20:10
is the seal in the dowty OK with heat?
from memory arnt they thick? or can you now get slimer ones?

sorry I'm an old git, ain't used dowty's for years and years and then on Hydraulics.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Hondaman on August 30, 2016, 17:39:25
Should be fine with engine oil heat, as you say they are used on hydraulics which can run similar temps.
Having said that the stock alloy ones are fine for multiple uses
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Robotstar5 on August 31, 2016, 10:48:38
I'd rather use a solid copper or aluminium crush washer instead of a Dowty seal which is designed for a slightly different application.
Title: Re: Oil drain bolt crush washer.
Post by: Hondaman on August 31, 2016, 13:30:01
A dowty would be fine, funnily enough I've jist done the first service on a works van which had a dowty seal on the sump plug from the factory.