Suzuki V-Strom (VStrom) Owners Club DL250, DL650, DL1000 & DL1050
V-Strom specific discussion => V-Strom specific discussion => Topic started by: Descolada on February 08, 2014, 22:14:08
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I should have known it was going to end in tears. I spent the morning replacing the rear pads on my wee. It went pretty well, they were very low, but not quite as dangerous as I was expecting.
Just as I was finishing up I decided to check and clean the front pads - I have an MOT at the end of March and wanted to ensure that no nasty surprises were in store.
As always I started by checking the free movement of the caliper on the near side and realised with a shock that they were more worn that I had expected, it was a surprise because I had checked them in the Summer and they weren't bad at all.
In order to clean them properly I removed the caliper assembly and took a closer look. They were low, but more worryingly, they were worn irregularly. The top of the brake pad showed signs of being more warn than the lower.
This suggested a sticking piston and I really wasn't surprised when I saw the state of it, all encrusted with salt damage, muck and some signs of rust.
I started to clean the pistons and caliper and confirmed that while the lower caliper moved freely the top one seemed almost stuck and needed much more work.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/canvas_zps0878a6d0.png)
Having spent 10 minutes trying to clean the pistons I was starting to get a little frustrated because I couldn't get into the crevices enough to clean them to my satisfaction and the top piston was not freeing up. In addition I could not see how to remove the (from the parts list) "Caliper Carrier" assembly (there seemed to be a rubber plug extending out of the caliper body, but the parts list shows that it is infact an end to the "Insulator") - it seemed to be fixed in place and it was blocking access to areas that needed cleaning badly.
You will be able to guess what's coming next no doubt. :angry-nono:
I decided to try and clean the sticking piston by extending it a little farther. I cleaned it and then tried it again - still sticking.
About an hour earlier I posted a comment on this forum that included a caution not to extend the piston too far, so I was very cautious as I decided to extend the piston a little further. I cleaned the piston again and tried to press it back into the caliper, at which point I realised that I could see rubber at two different laces
around the piston - I had exposed the top seal.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/f96fb828-328f-44a6-8352-8df0a6ada8c5_zps23de1990.jpg)
No matter how hard I tried it would not go back into the caliper.
Idiot! :angry-tappingfoot:
Now, I could have become very annoyed by this, but I also realise that it may have failed the forthcoming MOT based on the limitations of the caliper performance. More than that it was something that needed to be repaired either way. Riding with defective brakes is an accident waiting to happen. I learnt much from extending the piston as far as I had, the piston was showing spots of rust and some build-ups of salt along the internal barrel.
So, how to repair this problem. Do you think that a caliper seal kit would be enough, or does this look like something more substantial?
I need some advice please, because spending the next week travelling to and from work on the bus is going to drive me mad. :angry-screaming:
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Strip, clean, polish pistons, replace seals, fresh fluid, bleed....job done!. :thumb:
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The seals were probably already sticking out like that before you started, that would be a good reason for the piston to stick like that. From that picture the piston doesn't look all that bad, I'd take the callipers off the bike, take them apart and clean them well with brake fluid. Use a cloth and brake fluid to clean the pistons, the rust might just polish off with the cloth and the brake fluid. Don't use anything abrasive, the chrome on the pistons scratch rather easily. Rub some red rubber grease on new seals, stick them in and put the pistons back in, push them all the way in. At this point I usually cover the whole caliper in ACF-50 and let it sit for about half an hour before wiping off any excess. Put the rest of it back together, use red rubber grease on the sliding bracket, make sure nothing can get on the pads before you put them back in (and make sure your hands don't transfer ACF-50 to the pads, though it will burn off quickly if it does get on them.)
The short answer was: Yes, just a good clean and new seals :)
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That should just be a dust seal, if you needed to be back on the road again quickly you could just remove that and push the piston back in. More long term though a new seal kit and a full strip and clean is the way to go, as mentioned above.
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Ah the comfort of people who know. Thanks chaps :thumb:
Can you point me to anything that will show me the right way to strip the caliper - I still need to resolve the issue of not being able to take off the "Caliper Carrier" assembly?
Any suggestions for where to get the seal kit - I'd rather do this now rather than put it off.
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wemoto for your seal kits
I've had problems getting the caliper carrier free before- I just hit it with a hammer until it came out :shrug:
make sure you clean the corrosion out of the seal seats or they will corrode quickly again and red rubber grease on the new seals and in the seat.
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The caliper carrier should be a sliding assembly. If it's stuck then that's your real reason for the uneven wear. The one pin slides in a hole in the caliper body, that's the side that has the small concertina rubber on. The other side slides in a rubber that sticks through a bigger hole in the caliper body. The whole thing should just pull out quite easily. If it doesn't then the side with the pin that goes into the hole (rather than into the rubber) might have corroded enough to be stuck. Give it a tap in with a small hammer to see if it breaks the corrosion, otherwise a bit of Plusgas might do the trick. Don't use anything that will damage the concertina rubber boot, WD40 should be safe.
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Similar thing with my wife's bike a few days ago. The hole where the rubber insulator goes through had some corrosion in which effectively closed up the hole, clamping the sliding pin in place!
I had to cut the rubber boot but got a seal kit off ebay which includes it.
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That caliper looks a mess, go on ebay and get another there are plenty for sale. One on there now for £25.00.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-DL650- ... 2a31360b94 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-DL650-DL-650-V-Strom-05-K5-Rear-Brake-Caliper-/181214251924?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2a31360b94)
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Well, that was horrible.
After fighting me all the way the caliper carrier finally came off. It was free at the top end but entirely seized in the bottom pin. Crazy thing is that both pins were well covered in black (I assume Heavy) grease. There were no signs of rust or anything else that might have caused it to seize.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/f896c3f8-6ccd-4e0f-b326-a89aba0bce84_zps470c78f0.jpg)
Strangely there were more wear marks on the shaft of the top pin than the bottom and yet the top was still moving freely. Thank god for my rubber mallet.
I have just realised that Cupar Suzuki is open from 12:00 today so I will give them a call and see if they have a seal kit. I am going to get two kits cause if this side is bad it follows that I may find the same on the off-side caliper. If not well, at least I will have a spare set.
My biggest worry right now is the fact that the work in cleaning off the carrier and pins will expose the metal to the elements potentially making a future nightmare for cleaning up again.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/IMG_16871_zpsb6234b89.jpg)
Can I use copper grease in here to help stop the corrosion and can I use copper grease on the pins when they go back or does it have to be the black heavy grease?
Is there anything else I can do to protect the metal other than a liberal soaking of ACF50 (avoiding drips that might contaminate the pads of course).
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That caliper looks a mess, go on ebay and get another there are plenty for sale. One on there now for £25.00.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-DL650- ... 2a31360b94 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-DL650-DL-650-V-Strom-05-K5-Rear-Brake-Caliper-/181214251924?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2a31360b94)
Thanks for this. The Ebay item is for a rear caliper. I'm looking for a front on an AK9.
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Dealers will likely charge you an arm and a leg for seals, get them off eBay unless it's super urgent. Suzuki SV650 use the same caliper seals. That rusted pin you have in the last pic needs a bit of sandpaper love. After this you can give it a coating of copper grease. One end of the pads slide over it and has to move freely, the grease won't get on the pads from there.
Use red rubber grease for everything else that needs to move, if you don't have any, buy some from eBay. Any brand will do really, you only need a small amount, 15g should last you for a very long time. If it's not rubber safe grease the seals and rubbers will swell, become soft and tear easily.
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Silicon grease is best for the sliders, copper will work but light clear silicon grease is recommended. Don't worry too much about things, this is all quite normal, the pad wear, caused by the sticking slider are symptoms of mild neglect, this is why we clean our brakes routinely. Sounds like you've been vigilant enough to catch it before it damaged a disc, so pat yourself on the back, clean it all up, reassemble and have a beer. :)
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See here (http://www.v-strom.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21509&view=unread#p202116), Des, it's handy having a 2nd set, you can have them ready for a quick swap and then clean the other ones when you have time.
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Thanks Juv, PM sent.
Out of interest, and self preservation, are there any differences between the ABS version of the K9 and the non-ABS model with regards to the calipers?
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Just checked in the Man Cave. I have red rubber grease I purchased for just such an event, I also have a pot of Carlube lithium based LM2 grease - will this be sufficient for the pin sliders?
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if all else fails
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21509 (http://www.v-strom.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21509)
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Thanks Kodkod, have PM'ed him but the message is still sitting in the outbox. Sometimes it seems to take a moment to go out.
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It will sit in your outbox until the recipient has read it, it's a nice way of knowing that they've seen it or not.
The lithium grease will likely wash off with the first rain. Copper/Silicone grease should stay on longer.
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I was reviewing this thread http://www.v-strom.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=16173&p=141843&hilit=seal+kit#p141843 and am a little concerned about the comments about the pistons being different sizes. Maybe it's just my eyes, but mine look identical in size and depth - is that because it's an ABS version or does that have no bearing on the calipers?
Just heard back from the local Suzuki dealer. They don't have them in stock and even if they did it would still be 35.90 for the set. So I am just as well getting them off ebay or somesuch cause they aren't going to get here any faster.
I love the conversation on that thread about how little they cost and the internet mark-up for what is just a simple seal. Just wish I could find them for that kind of price but all the links seem to point to old and now redundant data.
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The pistons are the same size. The calipers for ABS and non ABS have different part numbers.
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Yes, that was just me getting confused with the OEM callipers and the CBR600 callipers I have on my bike as an upgrade :shy:
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So I went out with my trusty vernier caliper earlier and got readings that don't seem to tie up with what I have seen online (http://www.wemoto.com/parts/) .
The outside diameter of the pistons (both of them) is 26.9mm and the length (depth) seems to be 25.57mm - does that tie up with anything for piston sizing?
At the moment I am angling towards this kit but it specifies DL1000 and I haven't got a response to my enquiry as yet. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-DL650-DL1000-DL-650-1000-V-STROM-Tokico-brake-caliper-seal-repair-kit-/150970480378?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item23268ab6fa
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Seal measurements are going to be OD. Measure the old seal thickness, double it and add that to your piston OD.
That kit you linked looks like the right stuff. A multitude of bikes use the same callipers as the DL650 and DL1000. Lots of the Jap manufacturers use these on various bikes.
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Thanks Juv, I finally made my mind up and pimped for two of the Powerhouse kits. If I can get the extra caliper set I will keep those as a standyby for quick switching.
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Seal measurements are going to be OD. Measure the old seal thickness, double it and add that to your piston OD.
Don't forget the seals sit in a groove in the piston.
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I really hate ambiguity, it tends to lead to mistakes.
So I was looking again at the video "Motorcycle Front Brake Caliper Rebuild" from "Delboy's Garage" on Youtube (you can find it here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC_Id6rgP3g.
He is absolutely clear that nothing other than brake fluid should be used in the caliper piston sockets where the seals go.
But the advice from the folks on this forum is to use red grease on the seals and in the seal seats.
Is this just a case or "There's more than one way to do it"?
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Red rubber grease is fine to use, I believe it's even derived from brake fluid, it's perfectly safe to use on the rubber seals, after all that's what it's designed to do.
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Yep, that made perfect sense to me, cause it's called "Red Rubber Grease for Use in Caliper Seals" - but all it takes the first time you are attempting something new is a small shred of uncertainty and it all goes out the window. Thanks for confirming this, much appreciated.
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I'm probably too late to this thread, but the caliper seal sets are less than half the normal RRP during Suzuki's Bike Of The Month promotion this month (just got some myself): https://www.Suzuki-gb.co.uk/motorcycles ... the-month/ (https://www.Suzuki-gb.co.uk/motorcycles/my-Suzuki/bike-of-the-month/)
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I have to say I am really not enjoying this maintenance. I finally worked the pistons out of the caliper last night and they look rough, too rough to polish up and put back. Whether it was me, or some previous owner that did the damage is irrelevant at this point, I need to replace them.
The reason the caliper carrier would not come off is because the hole the long rubber boot goes into is encrusted with salt build-up and all kinds of muck. It was basically pinching the pin so hard it could not move and I need to get in there to remove all that mess. For now my only option seems to be a medium needle file but I am very nervous about damaging the hole using this method.
With regards to the pistons, I have to admit I got a little confused as the thread expanded to include different sized pistons etc, especially the difference between earlier calipers and those on my ABS K9.
So unless anyone else has a better (cheaper) supplier they can let me know about I am going to contact Suzuki using the link provided by Babel yesterday and get them from there. But that price seems to include a single piston and I haven't even looked at the off-side caliper yet.
This is turning out to be an expensive job :angry-tappingfoot:
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The DL650 is Suzukis Bike of the Month, you may find the parts are much cheaper ordering them online this month. Don't get them from the dealer as they don't give you the Bike of the Month discount, you have to order them online, you can then get the parts delivered to the dealer or sent to your home.
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Thanks Frez, I have that page and have confirmed the following;
Part Number is 59300-01820 - Confirmed earlier in this thread - same as a Suzuki SV650 K5
Wemoto's best price this morning is £26.28 FOR EACH PISTON & SEAL
The "Suzuki Bike of the Month" deal is matched to 59300-01820 and is £19.31 FOR EACH PISTON & SEAL
At this point I am going to call Suzuki and double check that they have stock.
Anyone do better than this please ?
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Can't you get hold of a pair of recon callipers off a breaker on eBay?
Also, use small lengths of wood to break up all the salty gunk in the holes, it won't damage the alloy.
I know it all seems like grief at the moment, and I'm sure it is, but when it's done you'll be wiser and more experienced, ready to pass it on later.
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Jacko, yes that's good advice. I understand that it will be a good learning process and I am, in fact, benefiting from it, but I hate screwing around with brakes. It's just one of those times when you think you are going to a a nice quick turn around in a standard maintenance task and it snowballs into something you feel you have barely any control over.
I need to control my sense of panic.
OK, so I have done the dirty with Suzuki and ordered two of their piston and seal kits. The whole thing came to £38.62 and I thought "Yippee", until I say the postage. £5 for a measly 3-7 day turn around - BAH!
By now I resemble one of these (the purple ones) :angry-tappingfoot:
[youtube]http://youtu.be/u6RxZK3LTnA[/youtube]
Worryingly when I entered my VIN number it went red and told me my bike was not eligible! (again with the purple minion) - BAH!
On a hunch I decided to proceed anyway, the worst that could happen was a couple of people from Suzuki would turn up at the door and demand the parts back. The purchase went through smoothly and no one was any the wiser.
So now I have a week off the road to clean the caliper and get it all ready to go back together (I should probably check the off-side caliper and get it over and done with. Incidentally, I struggled like buggery to get that stuck piston out of the caliper. The dust seal had bulged out almost all the way round and it was stick fast. In the end I carefully prized it loose and then pulled it out in one piece. TAH DAH! (thinking of minions here again).
The seal recessed on the caliper are caked with salt and that was probably what pushed the seal out in the first place. I need to be very careful cleaning all that crap out not to damage the recess for when the seals go back in.
BAH! :angry-cussingblack:
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I know it all seems like grief at the moment, and I'm sure it is, but when it's done you'll be wiser and more experienced, ready to pass it on later.
+1 :thumb:
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By the way chaps, if anyone sees a set of calipers for a 2009 ABS wee on ebay (or at a breakers) please give me a shout?
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Those calipers really don't look that bad. The sliding pins will clean up with some emery and the pistons can be cleaned with some very fine wet and dry if they require it. Usually the pistons are only corroded on the exposed areas which isn't normally a major problem. The caliper oil seals generally never need replacing in my experience, it's always the dust seals that give the problem.
Before fitting the new dust seals it is imperative to meticulously clean the recess using a small screwdriver or a scribe, the aluminium corrodes behind the seal which pushes it against the piston causing the stiction. Once you've scraped the corrosion away it then needs a thorough clean, I tend to use brake cleaner or whatever solvent cleaner I have on the shelf along with an old toothbrush.
You can use the red rubber grease but I always lubricate the pistons with fresh brake fluid to push them back. Crack the bleed nipple beforehand to allow them to go back more easily, if you have to use excessive force it's because the piston isn't square in the bore or the dust seal is catching.
Good luck with the rebuild.
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I really don't know if this apply for your stuck carrier...
When I was learning car mechanics in one old bloke's garage, 30 years ago, there were many cars coming in with parts that needed to be disassembled, as at that time parts were usualy rebuilt and rarely replaced. I remember from that period, whenever we had a part that was full of gunk, salt and everything else, completely stuck and therefore impossible to disassemble, we would let it submersed in the diesel fuel during a night. And I mean really submersed. In 95% of ocasions, in the morning the part was completely loose and easy to work on as if it was new.
That was back then and that is what I'd do today whenever I have this kind of problem.
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Geez, this has dragged on and on. Eventually had to get two sets (of pistons) and got the dispatch note from Suzuki - 7-10 days till delivery - WTF. Tracking information was all screwy so I tracked the 'authorised reseller' to Redcar Motorcycles. Gave them a call today and got a story about them being in stock when I ordered them, but then they weren't - Suzuki screwed up. So one set has arrived and 'will be with you on Saturday', the other will arrive next week. :angry-tappingfoot:
The bloke was very polite and apologised profusely - so I couldn't fault them on that front. Turns out they just won "Dealer of the Year" from Suzuki.
In the meantime there has actually been Sun in the sky. You should know once this job has been done and I'm back on the road - cause the heavens will open for the next two weeks (sorry in advance). :bawl:
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You should know once this job has been done and I'm back on the road - cause the heavens will open for the next two weeks (sorry in advance). :bawl:
It's actually going to snow, as I'm taxing my bike from the beginning of March!
Sorry to hear of all the faffing about you have been put to. At least you can see light at the end of the tunnel.
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Sorry to hear of all the faffing about you have been put to. At least you can see light at the end of the tunnel.
It's just frustrating more than anything, as others have pointed out it's adding to my knowledge of the bike so that's good experience.
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So it turns out that there has been a run on brake caliper piston sets as advertised on the Suzuki "Bike of the Month" page. So much so that these orders are now on 'back order' waiting for new deliveries direct from Japan (or so says the bloke at Redcar Motorcycles). I may have started to get a little less cheery than usual at this news (my bike has now been off the road for over two weeks FFS) :angry-tappingfoot:
Meaning an on-going "7-10 days until Suzuki acknowledge the shortage and supply more".
I decided to call Cupar Suzuki and tell them the whole sordid story in the hope that they could help out. Alan in the parts department did some calling about for me but came back with the same information - nobody has a supply at the main dealers at the moment. He suggested that I might get somewhere calling some of the bigger parts stockists directly and gave me a couple of names along with their telephone numbers. :thumb: Great customer support there.
My first call struck gold. I called Crooks Suzuki in Barrow-in-Furness and asked about the part number and whether they had anything. Yes the bloke said, "we have one set left, but I don't know when the next supply will arrive". Together we double checked the part number against the AK9 and confirmed the part was indeed correct. An interesting fact emerged at this point. That part number isn't for a single piston and seals but is in fact a set for each caliper - meaning I had already doubled up on my order requirement. I had seen no mention of this and the Suzuki page showed an image of a single piston and seal set.
He was very good natured about this because I asked him to check this on three occasions - apologizing profusely all the way :old: "I recon what's happened is that everyone has seen this deal and bought at a rate that has caught Suzuki out" he said, "I'm not surprised because I have seen seal set's alone for more than that!".
Naturally I jumped on the last set, and to top it off he matched the deal Suzuki was offering so I got them the parts for the same price.
Looks like I will have spares once all the parts arrive..... now where's that blinkin postman?
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The postman arrived this morning and brought Suzuki presents. Enough to complete the rebuild of both front calipers. I have spent the day doing this and both calipers are back on the bike and looking shiny.
Now the problem.
I have approached the bleeding of the brakes as if the system is completely empty (which it pretty much is). I have run through four complete reservoir refills and numerous swaps between the nearside and offside calipers while bleeding. There have been some impressive belches along the way but both sides now run clean and clear of bubbles. Yet the brake lever is horrible. It moves full 1&1/4 inch before it starts to engage the brakes and even then it's not good.
Both calipers are engaging when the brake lever is pulled all the way back and releasing when it's let off. If I take the bike off the stand it is effective enough to make the forks dip when engaged, but still it has a huge amount of play before the brakes engage.
I am expecting the brakes to be a little soft having changed the complete set on the front but this is excessive. I have even tried adjusting the brake lever setting (on the adjuster) to see if that makes any sizable difference, but all to no avail.
If someone brought this to me and said "what do you think?" I would say there was air in the system, but both sides run clear and there are no more bubbles (not even little ones).
I have packed it in for the day as the clouds have rolled over and the heavens openned, but I could do with a little advice please. I am starting to think that getting a Mytivac might have been a sensible way to go with a system this drained.
:angry-banghead:
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Tie the lever back to the bars and leave overnight (use a large zip tie), the air will work it's way to the top overnight .
I use a vacuum bleeder and it draws the fluid out of the bleed nipples but you could do the same with a big syringe . I've never failed to bleed a brake system using a vac bleeder .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/19087901 ... =95&ff19=0 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/190879017031?hlpht=true&ops=true&viphx=1&lpid=95&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=95&ff19=0)
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Tie the lever back to the bars and leave overnight.
+1
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+1 just, pump it until it gets stiff then tie it back. I use a cable tie, works a treat.
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Thanks blokes, I will ties back the lever and leave overnight. Will post an update in the morning. :thumb:
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Yeah, there's still air in there, most likely an airlock somewhere, tie the lever back as suggested. Air pockets can be buggers to remove, but there are many techniques to try if no joy with the lever.
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Excuse my ignorance but how does tieing it back help? Don't you want the air bubbles to pass into the reservoir, or am I reading it wrong?
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Pulling back the lever connects the reservoir to the rest of the circuit. The air bubbles working their way into the reservoir is what you want , the air in their is open not trapped and compressing.
Andy
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I use a vacuum bleeder and it draws the fluid out of the bleed nipples but you could do the same with a big syringe . I've never failed to bleed a brake system using a vac bleeder .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/19087901 ... =95&ff19=0 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/190879017031?hlpht=true&ops=true&viphx=1&lpid=95&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=95&ff19=0)
I find a big syringe usually works, back brakes can be a problem due to the routing of the hose, worse one I had ended up removing it completely and hanging on garage wall overnight to remove the air bubbles :)
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Pulling back the lever connects the reservoir to the rest of the circuit. The air bubbles working their way into the reservoir is what you want , the air in their is open not trapped and compressing.
Andy
I thought pulling back the lever sealed off the reservoir? The circuit wouldn't pressurise otherwise and apply the brakes. I know when I have reverse bled brakes you don't pull the lever as it stops the air escaping. I just thought this was a similar principle.
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Tying the handle down under pressure is done to seal the system. The air is less dense than the brake fluid so it goes to the top. When you then release the lever the air should be at the reservoir and bubble up into it.
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Cheers Juvecu! I always like to learn. Thanks for explaining.
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I should've added that I think that is the case, I'm not sure, it does seem plausible enough :)
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I've found using a syringe and reverse bleeding the caliper to be really effective. You bed up pushing the air out of the caliper replacing it with fluid.
With the lever tied back the air travels to the top of the system but won't escape until you release the zip tie and the lever moves forward :)
Well done on the rebuild, a tough one due to postage/stock problems but at least you know you can do it and will have a better insight into how to clean and maintain your brakes.
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I bet it gives a big satisfying belch this morning!.
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Sometimes tapping the lines as you bleed can also help. +1 for tying the lever back, I do this on my bikes from time to time even if no brake maintenence has been carried out and it always gives a good lever feel. You can normally do the rear brake by jamming a piece of wood between the lever and engine casing :)
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Good Morning.
Last night I left the lever pulled all the way back and tied off. The reservoir was full and this morning it is about 3/4 full. I let off the cable tie and tentatively tried the lever - BINGO! :lala: The lever pulls back to where it should have pulled back to before I started this task- Job done.
Thanks for all your help folks, much appreciated.
I suspected this was going to work because when I came down this morning it was blowing with very high winds, making a road test a little dodgy :angry-tappingfoot:
Having photo'ed and logged much of this process I am going to post a round up report in a little while as an example of my experience with a first time caliper rebuild, in the hope that it will help others who may find themselves in the same situation. For now I am going to wait and see if the wind will die down so I can go for a ride. :) I also decided to spend 19 quid and invest in a Mityvac-like reverse bleeder because this is bound to happen again at some point (if not on this bike, then the next). I chose this one if anyone else is interested. http://goo.gl/c25R7x - As an aside I have just used "Google URL Shortner" for the first time to create that link (the longer ones are a pain and prone to getting wrong on a retype).
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That is the one I've got from eBay as well. The price is the same as the price to change brake oil so on next service (2 years one) it'll pay off. I watched Youtube video of one mechanic changing brake oil on Car park of the shop. On uncut video he changed front and rear oil in less then 15 minutes.
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Ho Hum, looks like my earlier celebrations were a little premature. :angry-cussing:
I kitted up (once the latest storm had blown over) and headed out to the bike for a test ride. Straight away I discovered that the brake lever was back to its old floppy soggy feeling and wasn't engaging the brakes until about an inch from the handlebar.
So I dug out all the brake bleeding stuff and re-bled the brakes again. All the way down to the lower 1/4 of the reservoir. Down at the brake neither side let out any air bubbles and only clear brake fluid.
I have tied the brake lever back and will leave it for a while again in order to see what happens. I have been over the mechanics of the system and the newly rebuild calipers with a fine toothcomb again, nothing is leaking, they both engage when the brake lever is pulled back and they both release once the brake lever is released. everything is as it should be.
I am beginning to loose my sense of humour with this one. :angry-tappingfoot:
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The area around the banjo bolt where the hose enters the master cylinder is often a trouble spot. An air bubble really has no place to go from that position. There are banjo bolts with bleeder nipples available. It's also possible to momentarily loosen the bolt a little while holding a rag around the area, then clean the area to follow up. Temporarily pointing the bolt head down and tying off the lever overnight can work too. Be sure the master cylinder cover is sealed if trying that.
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OK, I've heard of this before with new seals after a rebuild. What you can try is taking the calipers off and pumping the lever til the pads touch each other. Then prise them apart again and replace the calipers. See if that makes a difference.
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Thanks Jacko - I will give that a try.
Any thoughts on why this happens and why your suggestion fixes the problem. Some kind of recalibration?
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Another thing to try is to remove the calipers and clamp the pistons right back using small g clamps (if you have them) and then bleed. Its a pain I know but something else to try. I hate brakes as well!! You'll get there with perseverence - good luck
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Thanks, that's another good suggestion. :thumb:
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Thanks Jacko - I will give that a try.
Any thoughts on why this happens and why your suggestion fixes the problem. Some kind of recalibration?
Yes, the seals, they're new, and also in a new clean environment, it's a sort of stiction. They can hold position and just expand with the fluid pressure to press onto the disc, the movement you feel at the lever is that expansion, then they return to their normal shape as pressure is released. By forcing the pistons past this sticking area, then returning them you're effectively breaking the stiction and lubing the part of the piston barrel where the seal would normally stick. It could be why tying the lever back helped temporarily, an old trackday trick is to tie the lever back hard overnight before a trackday, this gives you more braking power on the day as it's forced the seals to reshape temporarily, it works, I do it on my trackdays.
Firestorm also makes a good suggestion, this effectively reduces volume in the caliper and thereby reduces the chances of an air pocket.
Brake bleeding can be a dark art.
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Wow, that's a great answer. I will give this a try when I get home. Thanks again, great advice. :thumb:
"Stiction" - I learnt a new word today :) for anyone else not familiar with this word you can read about it here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiction) .
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page not found :angry-tappingfoot: :)
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My bad - it's working now. :shy:
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Bugger!
I had such high hopes for Jacko's "Stiction". Got home, took both calipers off and did as instructed by pumping until the new pads touched each other. Reinstalled onto the bike and tried the lever. Nope.
:angry-banghead: - It would be safe to say that I am not happy this evening.
My next move will be to wait until the vaccum bleeder arrives in a day or two. In the meantime I am also considering bleedable banjo bolts - would anyone happen to know the correct size please?
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Sorry to hear that. My next move would be to make the bleed nipples the highest part of the system and re-bleed. Tricky, but worth a shot.
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Sorry to hear that. My next move would be to make the bleed nipples the highest part of the system and re-bleed. Tricky, but worth a shot.
That wouldn't help an air bubble trapped in the master cylinder attachment area. The trick is to temporarily orient everything so there are no high spots anywhere that can trap a bubble.
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UPDATE: This seems to have improved over the past couple of days. I did as both Jacko and greywolf suggested and then have been tying the brake lever back each night. This morning it was almost back to it's former self and seemed to have held that status by the time I headed home.
Hopefully my vacuum bleeder will arrive tomorrow so I can use that if I need further improvement. I have also ordered a couple of bleeder banjo bolts and will install those when I get a moment. I realise that there are more than two on the system, but one can go straight on the front master cylinder for starters and then I will decide whether to outfit all the remainder over time.
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:)
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Hope it sorts itself out for you....I'd of given up by now and slung it through a wall!! :grin: :grin:
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Hope it sorts itself out for you....I'd of given up by now and slung it through a wall!! :grin: :grin:
If he doesn't get the brakes sorted that could be the nett result! Hope the vacuum bleeder is a success.
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lol, to be honest my other half sidled up to me at the start of the week and inquired, very carefully, whether I would consider booking it in at Cupar Suzuki. At that point I had already considered this but wanted to give it a little more time and await the arrival of the vacuum bleeder.
It's been holding the pressure since my last post and I am painfully aware that this has gone on so long that I am beginning to forget what the brake lever felt like before I started this work. I have to resist the urge to not acknowledge that it is much better and that any 'sogginess' could in all likelihood be down to the new brakes bedding in.
:thumb:
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Can you lock the front up? That's usually my test as to whether or not the brakes are working. Ride along, yank the lever back, if the front locks they're good enough. :)
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Can you lock the front up? That's usually my test as to whether or not the brakes are working. Ride along, yank the lever back, if the front locks your ABS is broken. :)
:)
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If I throw the front brake on the forks dip and I come to a halt. I haven't tried a complete lock-up because I would have expected my ABS to have complained about that. Maybe I will try the lockup as I pull into my driveway tonight.
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If the abs cuts in the brakes are good enough.
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Despite my jesting, if you apply hard front brake suddenly (ie, no time for weight transfer) the front will judder lots before the abs sorts you out :)
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Tried this on the way home. When I throw in the front brake the bike comes to a pretty swift stop. I think the brakes themselves are working just fine.
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Gone are the days when the lever would tell you that the front is about to lock. It's all computers now.
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[s:1b6aihx7]Final report of the commercial starship Nostromo[/s:1b6aihx7] - No, wait, that's something else entirely.
Why did I start this?
As many of you will know, I recently undertook an unanticipated rebuild of both the front calipers on my wee AK9, it was the first time I had done this sort of job on any motorbike.
It began as a simple replacement of brake pads on the rear wheel, a job I had been meaning to get round to for many months, but I don't have a garage and the weather did not work in my favour. The driving factor was that I have the bike's second MOT at the end of March and was doubtful that the bike would get through given how low the pads were.
I reminded myself that I purchased a full set of front and back pads some time ago but decided against doing the work at the time, because when I took the pads out and inspected them they just needed a good clean and still had an ample amount of material left on the pads.
Why change them when you don't really need to?
I had at the time asked on the forum and was pointed to EBC HH pads as the best replacements and got them all from Sportsbikeshop.com, FA229HH & FA231HH for the front, FA174HH for the rear.
After removing and cleaning the rear brake caliper, copper greasing what needed to be greased and fitting the new pads I bolted everything back up and thought to myself "It would be stupid to do all this and not look at the front brakes - just to be sure". I wasn't expecting anything too awful because (thanks to the piles of salt on the roads) I had been washing these off as often as possible with soapy water.
Starting with the nearside caliper I shone my inspection light into the gap between the disc and the caliper and stopped while I did a doubletake. Clearly poking out from the sides of both pistons were the dust seals. I swore loudly and checked the other side - ditto.
The exposed seals.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/f96fb828-328f-44a6-8352-8df0a6ada8c5_zps23de1990.jpg)
The pads displayed obvious signs of an uneven pad wear suggesting that, (a). the brakes had been like this for some time and (b). the pistons were not retracting fully. A closer inspection and an attempt to move them back into their respective sockets soon showed that the piston on the nearside upper was seized completely and the pistons in the offside caliper were very stiff and slow to retract. As someone else on the forum commented, the seal was probably what was jamming the piston.
I would discover later on the seal wasn't the only thing jamming the caliper.
So on the face of it I was going to need a seal kit for both calipers on the front. I decided to do the job right and replace the bleed nipples, nipple covers, rubber dust covers and those long slider gators on both sides. All these items were available in a kit from eBay marked as "Suzuki DL650 DL1000 DL650 1000 V-STROM Tokico brake caliper seal repair kit" (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150970480378) - what I didn't realise when I clicked the "Buy Now" button was that the seals in this kit were only good for K4-K6 - so I later discovered that they were too big for my K9.
The Seals were too big. The new seal is at the bottom.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/2-Sealsweretoobig_zps78adaa54.jpg)
Having removed the nearside caliper I quickly discovered that the "caliper carrier" was entirely seized at the longer pin (the one that goes into the long rubber gaitor). A closer look showed that over time a build-up of salt had pushed the outside of the rubber gaiter in against the slider pin and eventually locked it in place. The surface of the pin itself had been protected from damage by the rubber gaitor, but the hole the gaitor recessed into would need some serious work to restore.
My next challenge was to get the pistons out of the caliper. Trying to twist them out (using pliers with rubber jaw protectors) eventually saw both pistons out but it was a grim struggle and in the end both pistons were so pitted or scratched that they had to be binned.
The next day I started asking about the most reliable place to get pistons and seal kits and started to groan at the prices being advertised. Babel (forum member) was good enough to point out that Suzuki were running a "Bike of the Month" discount on parts for the DL650 and amongst that were piston and seal kits I needed (part number: 59300-01820). They were about half the price I had seen elsewhere so I ordered several kits.
Here's where it got a little ugly (and, eventually, unnecessarily expensive). Everywhere I saw the Suzuki "piston and seal kit # 59300-01820" it appeared to show a single piston and a set of seals. My calipers had twin (identically sized) pistons on each front caliper - so I ordered two kits for each side. The strange thing about this "bike of the month" deal was that Suzuki do not send these things out directly to the customer. Instead they send them to a registered Suzuki supplier and from there they go to the customer. The order was placed and quite quickly I saw the follow-up email stating that they had been dispatched and would be here in 7-10 days.
7-10 Days!!
Well I waited for 7 days and then called Redcar Motorcycles (because they were the designated supplier). "Ah yes, didn't I call you about that Sir, there was a bit of a problem", Oh here we go I thought. Turns out there was a huge run on that deal and everyone was trying to buy the piston and seal kit (not surprised when you see the usual price). Indeed, there was so much of a run on them that Suzuki UK ran out of supplies, there were no more to be had. Redcar Motorcycles had a single set that they were about to send out that very day, but no deadline date for when the new supply would be available (direct from Japan) so no information on where I would see my second set.
Remember that at this point I still believed that each kit contained a single piston and seals and I was still acting under the impression that I would need two kits for each side.
By now the whole thing was beginning to wear a little thin and I decided to call Suzuki Cupar, explain the problem and see if they could suggest an alternative source. They were amazingly helpful, to the extent that they called around and then called me back. The story wasn't good and they could only confirm the information I had been given by Redcar - there appeared to be no supplies at any registered dealer.
On the off chance that someone would have something left on the shelf they provided me with two contacts. Crooks Motorcycles of Barrow-in-Furness and another (I can't even remember them now). My first call was to Crooks and I was very fortunate to strike gold straight away. The bloke in the parts department had one set left - Yes, it was the right part number and he would just open the box for me to confirm. Yep, two pistons and a seal set (4 seals). "Wait a minute" says I, "could you please repeat what you just said about the number of pistons in each kit?". He confirmed that by inspecting the contents of the kit. Two pistons and four seals.
The bloke must have thought I had gone barmy because I ended up asking him to confirm that a third time before asking how he would like to be paid. To top it all off he happily matched the price of the deal from Suzuki's "Bike of the Month".
The following morning (a Friday) the postman arrived carrying my package from Crooks, the day after that the matching package from Redcar arrived. I had a full set - enough to rebuild both calipers on the front of the bike. And that was without having to wait for the extra set to arrive from Japan (which still hasn't arrived).
Here's what the contents of "Piston and Seal Kit # 59300-01820" look like.
Piston and Seal kit # 59300-01820
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/3-pistonandsealkit-59300-01820_zps4d5a78ba.jpg)
The Rebuild
Then began the laborious job of cleaning the calipers back to a condition where they could be remounted on the bike.
I should state that I've mixed up the chronology a little in my telling of this tale. For example, I actually completed the cleaning and respraying of both calipers before the parts arrived, that's mostly how I kept sane while I waited two and a half weeks for the postman to arrive. Keeping busy.
But I think it reads easier if I put it down this way.
I used a mixture of tools in cleaning the calipers and all was done using a Clarke illuminated magnifying glass (http://www.machinemart.co.uk/images/library/product/medium/01/010812040.jpg?2) (wonderful tool).
The tools list was as follows;
A Dremel multitool and many brass wire brush attachments.
A set of Maplin Rolson 140mm Needle File Set (http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/rolson-140mm-needle-file-set-rm46a)
A Rolson (Maplin again) 12 Part Stainless Steel probe Set (http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/12-part-stainless-steel-probe-set-n18fa) - these things were invaluable for getting salt corrosion off the calipers.
A tube of Autosol polish (didn't use this much in the end).
A tub of Red Rubber grease (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00FJWMM2I/ref=pe_385721_37038051_TE_3p_dp_1)
A tub of Copper Grease (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005D7O9EI/ref=pe_217191_31005151_3p_dp_1)
A bottle of Halfords DOT4 Brake Fluid.
Plus about a million towels, flanels and swabs.
Here's some of what I was trying to clean up.
Image 1:
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/4-Clean-up_zps6eb8ee33.jpg)
Image 2:
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/5-Clean-up_zps812e7ff0.jpg)
Image 3:
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/6-Clean-up_zpsd0f25352.jpg)
Image 4: This one shows some of the build-up in the seal area.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/8-Clean-up_zps84c8ca32.jpg)
Image 5:
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/IMG_16791_zpsdfdd17fe.jpg)
Image 6: And finally, the knackered pistons.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/10-knackeredpistons_zps44ea617e.jpg)
Here's what they started to look like after I had finished my first pass at cleaning the salt deposits off.
Cleaning up begins;
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/9-1stCleaning_zpsfddb861a.jpg)
Respraying
I decided early on that, so long as I could get the calipers clean enough and could find a colour that matched closely enough (Black is Black, right?), I would add a respray to the rebuild in an attempt to add a little extra protection. I wanted a paint that was hard wearing and resistant to road salt, so I opted to use this stuff; VHT SATIN BLACK EPOXY PAINT - SP652 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251321042990)
My wife started getting twitchy again when her Tesco nail varnish remover started going missing as I cleaned the calipers ready for paint.
Much of my work in doing this part went in getting the calipers as clean as possible and masking off the holes and sockets so I didn't get over-spray in places it really shouldn't be. I don't seem to have taken any pictures of this, but it was extensive and a combination of packing with kitchen roll and cut up sections of microfibre cloth where necessary. Everything was then capped off with blue masking tape (the piston recesses were a bitch to properly cut out and mask).
This spray was very toxic but it was very easy to apply. Two light coats separated by 10 minute breaks and then a 'wet coat' and allow to dry. there is a caution that all this must be completed within the first hour, otherwise additional coats could take SEVEN DAYS to cure properly. In the end I did four coats per caliper and then allowed 48 hours to cure properly before checking for over-spray. As always, keeping the area and the parts at the correct temperature was critical and achieved with a free-standing halogen lamp.
Rebuilding
The rebuild was pretty straight forward, possibly the biggest concern for me was making sure that the seals were installed in the correct orientation or I would end up stripping the whole thing out again when brake fluid came pouring out between the pistons - the first time I squeezed the brake lever. I really did not want to do that.
I already knew that correctly fitted seals would result in a slightly resistive edge on the furthest-in part of the seal, you can feel it when you drag your finger out of the piston hole. The only problem is that it is very difficult to make out what is the right way to insert these seals until they are in place. You can take them out and try again if you think they are wrong but that means contaminating everything with the red rubber grease you used to lubricate the seal in the first place. You can just make out the edge in this photo.
The Edge of the Seal can just be seen in this picture;
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/11-EdgeoftheSeal_zpsbfbd5063.jpg)
The seals were put back in place after lubricating with red grease and copper grease was used where possible on everything else that needed to move but be protected. The new dust covers and gaitor were also given a liberal coating of red grease and all fittings were tested for correct operation before the final reassembly was completed. Oh, and of course a full set of new pads were fitted.
The piston sockets were cleaned out with new brake fluid as were the nipple socket and banjo bolt socket.
Bleeding Awful
If I thought that what had gone before was a challenge I was about to get a rude awakening - when I started to bleed the brakes.
The front brake reservoir and brake hoses had been free of brake fluid for over two weeks. Although I had tied back the banjo connectors on both sides and cable tied plastic bags over them, most of the remaining brake fluid had drained out over time into the plastic bags.
I started bleeding out the system and was reassured to see some pretty big belches from the calipers as the new fluid replaced the air in the system. Happy that I was seeing no further bubbles in the system (and having gone through four full reservoirs of brake fluid), I tried the brake lever for the first time.
It was horrible and very wrong. The lever came all the way back before performing a very soggy stop about an inch (perhaps less) from the throttle.
So I tried again, twice. Started on one side and bled the system and then moved over to the other. I couldn't understand it because neither side was showing any sign of bubbles and yet the lever remained as bad as before. In something of a panic I posted a request for advice on the forum and Locky suggested that I tie back the brake lever and leave it overnight in order to give the brake reservoir time to release air back into the reservoir. This I did and the brake lever improved a little, but not as much as I had hoped. Also, the improvement gained by tying back the brake lever faded almost as soon as I started to use the brake lever again. Greywolf also suggested that the banjo bolts might be trapping air, in particular at the front master cylinder reservoir. I carefully released that banjo bolt and let brake fluid drain out a little before tightening it up again (the area was covered in cloth to avoid spillage getting on the paintwork), I can't say that I saw much by way of air escaping - but it was worth a try.
After a couple of days of tying back the brake lever I saw a little improvement, but it wasn't enough so I decided the invest in a cheap vacuum bleeder from eBay (it only cost me £18). I choose this one and waited with baited breath for it to arrive.
Hand Held Reverse Brake Bleed Kit Bleeder Set Vacuum Pump Car Bike Auto Tester (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hand-Held-Reverse-Brake-Bleed-Kit-Bleeder-Set-Vacuum-Pump-Car-Bike-Auto-Tester-/251200174337?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160)
The bleeder finally arrived last Saturday and I was able to get it working quickly (I will review this product at a later date) and I was stunned when I tried the brake lever again. It was rock solid and back to where I had expected it to be.
To avoid any future bleeding issues I also took Greywolf's advice and purchase a Banjo Bolt & Bleed Nipple/Screw M10 x 1.25mm (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Banjo-Bolt-Bleed-Nipple-Screw-M10-x-1-25mm-/121225237999?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160) - I spoke to the seller to confirm that this was indeed the right size for my bike and searched the forum for threads where the correct size and diameter were discussed. As it happened this arrived along with the brake bleeder on Saturday as well.
So I tested my vacuum bleeder again by draining the front master cylinder reservoir and changing the banjo bolt at that location with the new bleedable version. The vacuum bleeder again performed its magic and the thing was fitted in a very short space of time. The brake lever retained its solid feel.
All was good here and, finally, I was content with the results.
Here are a couple of "After" shots.
Image 1: Job Done.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/IMG_1754_zps8c034a36.jpg)
Image 2: A Better look at the Respray;
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/IMG_1753_zps40690135.jpg)
Everything looks a little shiny in this last picture because ACF50 has been applied to help fend off the Winter weather.
What I learned
As many pointed out, while this was a painful process to complete, I learnt lots. Among the most important things I learnt were the following;
- Pay close attention to the condition of your brakes, especially during the Winter months. Make sure before you walk away from your bike in the evening that you can still move the caliper a little (you will hear the brake pads clunking as you try to move the caliper once they have been loosened). This will avoid a situation where they bind on overnight and you don't realise it. Remember, if you are riding in the wet or icy conditions and your brakes are binding - you are effectively applying the brakes a little all the time, even when you are taking a corner. Not a healthy state of affairs.
- If you have to strip down your brake caliper(s) make sure to loosen everything before the caliper is off the bike. That way you won't be left struggling to get a bolt or pin loose.
- If you have to replace the pistons in your caliper use the brake lever to push them almost all the way out before you take the caliper off the bike. Be careful not to pop them all the way out because that will end in you emptying the entire contents of your brake reservoir over the bike, the floor or all over you (any one of these results can be combined for greater [read: more horrible] effect). If you end up with sticking pistons and don't use this method you will inevitably end up with a pair of pliers and soon after an unusable set of pistons.
- If at all possible, invest in a vacuum bleeder. Mine was invaluable and yet only cost me £18. If I'd had this when it all went back together and I started the process of bleeding the brakes I have little doubt that the process would have been completed without any of the aforementioned pain.
- I learnt the trick of tying back the brake lever to help trapped air to escape from the system.
- I learnt that the most troublesome place that air will get trapped is in the banjo bolts.
- I reminded myself that this might have gone very differently if I had not had access to the forum and it's wealth of accumulated knowledge.
- Do not assume that Suzuki UK will have large stocks of items may put on "special deals".
- Just because your bike doesn't "qualify" on a Suzuki "Bike of the Month" deal doesn't mean you will fail to complete your purchase on the Suzuki website. I dutifully entered my VIN number and was told that my bike did not qualify for this promotion, but on a hunch I proceeded anyway and completed my purchase without issue.
- Many of these brake parts are common across a good chunk of Suzuki models. Where at all possible try to identify the official part number and look for that rather than the bike model and year.
What I would do differently
[1]. I would try to get all the parts I might need collected ahead of time.
[2]. I would try not to panic quite as much when this sort of thing happens, it makes me miserable (and by osmosis all those around me).
[3]. I would increase the frequency with which I take the brake calipers off my bike and give them a good clean/inspection.
This has been a rather long winded wind-up report, but I'd like to think it might help others by telling the story of what happened to me the first time I stripped down my brake calipers.
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I'd like to nominate that post to go into the technical section :)
Excellent write-up. It looks like that everything that could go wrong, did (unfortunately for you, but fortunate in that it meant you had the opportunity to write all that!)
The brakes now look fantastic, and at least you'll know what you're getting into next time (or rather, at least you'll keep a better eye on their condition from now on :) )
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Great !!!! It's all I can say.
I was following your post from the first day and now I'm more then happy you've got it all working well. More or less in the same time you've ordered your brake bleeder, I've ordered mine.
I'm, as you said, the kind of "anticipator". I like to get all I need before starting any work on my bike. That is why I ordered bleeder for 2 years service I'm going to perform myself (changing brake fluid) in June.
But still, I have question to ask. I haven't seen in your post anything about disk bobbins. I mean, you've done cracking job of rebuilding front calipers but did you clean and free up the bobbins?
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I always take a look at the bobbins and make sure that they are still flexible, but I am very cautious about putting anything on them because its spitting distance from the disc surface. I have no desire to contaminate the discs with anything slippy. Occasioanlly I will carefully smear (and I mean very thin smear) acf50 over the actual bobbins and I'm painfully aware that the (black) paint is now peeling off the disc inner - but there's nothing there I think I can do anything about. Short of hand-painting the inner disc in situ.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/IMG_1777_zps740cddf3.jpg)
It was true that I had a number of "Up's & Down's" on this job. By way of a confessional one of them I left out of the write up. If I include the following I will leave you good people to guess what it entailed. It was probably my lowest point in the whole saga and harsh language spouted forth .. :shy:
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o693/D-Colada/5a796509-e8f9-473b-92d7-581aa2a9a8e3_zps8363c9d3.jpg)
.. oh the shame.
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I'd say you lost a screw to the master cylinder lid. I did that once when a magnetic screwdriver lifted it out but it didn't hold on after that.
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Descolada,
if you haven't seen this video yet, just take a look, I love the way this bloke explains it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qoPqN2GBdw
You can always use brakes cleaning spray. It will not get anything lubricated and even if there was some residue on disk or pads, it will remove it. The bloke in the video uses it to clean bobbins. I've done only one calipers service and all cleaning I've done was with Brake Cleaning Spray. It removes everything from cylinders much faster then brake oil, and leaves absolutely no residue. I have it always in my garage. When the can comes close to the end I go and buy a new one. I can't even imagine my life without it, besides copper grease that I use whenever I service/replace my pads.
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Thanks for the link. I had seen this one from Delboy, very infromative.
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+1 for brake cleaner, so many uses, not just for brakes. Works well as a contact cleaner and I also use it to clean my wheel rims where I'm going the stick balancing weights.
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I'd like to nominate that post to go into the technical section
Several similar recommendations received, so this will happen once the photo's are cloned.
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Greywolf - you are the only one to offer a suggestion, so I will come clean. In one of my lowest moments, I got home from work and decided to try to get air out of the master cylinder banjo bolt. Only, as I tried to undo one of the reservoir bolts I stripped the cross head screw with my screwdriver leaving me nothing to sit the screwdriver into. It resulted in no access to my reservoir until the new screw arrived and I had drilled out the original.
It was not a good day.
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Had the same problem a while back. Cut a notch in the screw and used a flat head screwdriver.
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Yep, that's the way I did it. :)
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Looks like a good job, the subject of the thread needs changing :)
I'm planning on giving my calipers and pistons some attention soon. The "before" shots of the calipers look very much like mine at the moment (& the front clamp of your bash plate looks identical :) ). I wasn't planning on respraying mine but your results have got me thinking...
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Babel - the key to respraying is clean, mask, spraying area temperature, paint tin temperature, pain tin shake (and between usage).
Two 'tack' coats before the main.
If you use the VHT stuff I used it has very specific time delays between coats and the whole thing must be done within an hour of starting.
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Good thread this, and I must admit to having a few "issues" with my brakes, when I replaced the brake lines earlier in the week I though I would also clean up the calipers, but I was foiled at the first hurdle when I could not get the brake pad retaining pin out! :shock:
I know this is not screwed in and once the retaining pin is removed it should come out fairly easily... but it did not.
Now planning on soaking them in WD40 and seeing if I can get them loose, sure I can.
Then I will be doing something similar to this! :)
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Sharpy, the first time I took my pads out I couldn't get the pin out either. I cursed and swore but couldn't get it out. It was only once I started to clean out the gunk around the pin that I realised that there was an "R" clip holding the pin in place. I had assumed that because there was a bolt type head on the pin that it would unscrew, but no. It should just pull out once the R pin has been removed.
Can you turn the pin in the hole or is it stuck solid?
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The first time I did mine, I ground away the back of the 'pocket' on the inside side of the pin, and then hammered it out. It was a bit stuck...
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Cheers Desco, but I have found the R pin... but the pin itself is stuck solid, even had a set of mole grips on the case, and a bench vice.... nothing! :haha:
Left it at that for now as I need the bike tomorrow, but I will be having another go over the weekend. I am confident I can get it out, but I might need to get some news pins... I suspect the current ones will be a bit 2nd hand once I am done with then!! :shock:
MJC - That thought has crossed my mind, but it will be a last resort!
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Funnily enough I just got a couple of set's of pins to keep as spares;
Here you go; Suzuki DL650 V-STROM GSF650 BANDIT SFV 650 FRONT BRAKE PAD PIN PINS X1 BPS9 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-DL650-V-STROM-GSF650-BANDIT-SFV-650-FRONT-BRAKE-PAD-PIN-PINS-X1-BPS9-/201039618811?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:GB:3160)
They look expensive but I have seen them far dearer than this - at least these are free P&P :)
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Great thanks! :)
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I've had seized brake pins when I first came to service the calipers on an old SV I bought (identical to the v-Strom calipers). So I drilled a small hole (smaller than the diameter of the pin) in the 'blind' side and tapped them out using the reverse end of the drill I used to make the hole. Simples!
I used said holes as lube ports and the pins never seized after that.