Suzuki V-Strom (VStrom) Owners Club DL250, DL650, DL1000 & DL1050
V-Strom specific discussion => V-Strom specific discussion => Topic started by: Descolada on November 01, 2013, 10:53:10
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Is there any such thing as performance tuning on a wee (AK9). Can the engine be tweaked to provide more power - without workshop performance testing tools/diagnostic how would you know that your wee is performing at its optimal efficiency?
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You can fit a K&N along with an aftermarket pipe and a power commander/yoshi box tweak.... :)
For ongoing issues...a dyno run to see power output, maybe a compression test on the cylinders??
I shall be cheeky & say...
Wee Performance Tuning = Go to dealer, trade Wee in for Vee...Big gains in power at lowest expense. lol
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lol I like it! Unfortunately you missed out the other drawback, higher fuel consumption?
Thanks for the feedback though :thumb:
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As mentioned a K&N filter and pipe with a Yoshi box tweak is pretty much all you can do without getting silly expensive. Apparently you can drop in the cams from an SV650 for an extra couple of HP, no doubt at the loss of some torque lower down the range ? After that it's getting expensive with big bore kits and the like.
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I found mine got more powerful after I lost four stone.
Unfortunately it's getting less powerful again as I have found two of those missing stones.
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+1 for K&N filter and an aftermarket exhaust. They will make it breathe better and you will feel the revs pick up a little quicker. The real benefit is the great noise the engine makes when you give it some. The aftermarket exhaust will also shed some weight. This is where my 'performance' tweaking advice stops for a Wee.
If you want to spend money on the bike, spend it on suspension and brakes. Get a fork brace, fork springs, rear shock spring, EBC HH brake pads for the front and braided brake hoses for the front. These are all relatively cheap mods, but they will transform how your bike rides, handles and stops. These changes will be more valuable and, more importantly, more noticeable than tuning your engine.
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Unfortunately it's getting less powerful again as I have found two of those missing stones.
Crikey, you're taking that Geocache' lark way too seriously !
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Basically, what Juv and the others said. Some have tried fitting velocity stacks also (Eg HERE (http://www.v-strom.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=13319&p=115081&hilit=airbox#p115081), but highly dubious results.
I personally (fwiw) haven't bothered with exhausts, yoshi's or owt. Just invest in one of these
http://www.carbtune.co.uk/ (http://www.carbtune.co.uk/) and keep everything balanced and plugs, filter clean etc...
But maybe I'm just a lazy sod who's easily pleased!
btw, I haven't balanced the throttle bodies on mine yet, though I've done it on previous bikes. I'll be getting a carbtune next year (always borrowed them in the past), a 4 cylinder one. This is a handy link...
http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/topic,5731.0.html (http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/topic,5731.0.html)
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+1 for the 4 tube Carbtune, great bit of kit. Makes you look like a wizard when mates come round to have their bikes balanced, it looks really complex to them, but it isn't.
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I have just booked mine in for a valve clearance check, they are going to balance the throttle as part of the work. At £87.51 including vat it beats doing it myself in this weather, without a garage :-)
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That's not a bad price and as you say it saves a bit of work too :thumb:
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That's good, would they be adjusting or just checking at that price?
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Am waiting for clarification on that Jacko, they tell me it will take a day to do this as the bike needs to be cold to check properly. Would seem a little daft to just put it back together and hand it back just to say "oh yes, it definately needs adjustment". As I say, I have asked them what they would do if she needs adjustment and whether this is included in the cost.
Not sure whether the shims are something they keep in stock, maybe they would need to order in or maybe, because they are authorised dealers, they have a supply for such jobs.
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They'll have a load of shims in stock, they swap them anyway so their stock numbers never dwindle and they're always moving different sizes in and out. I have a collection of my own now, a mate does the same, we have quite a collection ourselves now.
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Got an answer back from Cupar Suzuki. The price quoted is just a valve check - if adjustment is require it's an additional £25.00 per cyclinder because of the work involved, however the quote from them is " but we find most bike are within the tolerance"
I guess I will get peace of mind either way and the throttle balance is worth getting done.
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£25 each per pot on top for adjustment is a bargain. Rest easy. :)
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Just back to the performance thing, Wiseco do a 696cc big bore kit for the Glee. Should be good for a few horses and a bit more torque although it will be a few bob to fit and adjust the fueling to suit.
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I guess that was a Gladius kit first?
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Got an answer back from Cupar Suzuki. The price quoted is just a valve check - if adjustment is require it's an additional £25.00 per cyclinder because of the work involved, however the quote from them is " but we find most bike are within the tolerance"
I guess I will get peace of mind either way and the throttle balance is worth getting done.
Make sure you get their reduced hourly rate for the work. From memory it's 50% off for the next few months.
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I guess that was a Gladius kit first?
I assume so, there are a few big bore options out there, most seem to be just under 700cc. The ones over 700cc seem to need a fair bit more work and are more for racing (SV series in the 'states). They also seem more prone to breaking engines too...
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Had my vee re mapped at Hilltop Motorcycles, Leicester. Web Address http://www.hilltopmotorcycles.co.uk (http://www.hilltopmotorcycles.co.uk). Prior to remapping fitted new plugs and air filter, balanced throttle bodies, checked valve clearances. BHP and torque up by about 20% bike much more flexible, able to engage higher gear at lower revs making for a much more relaxed ride. Lots of GS Panzer owners have had this done. Check out UK gser. Cost £360 which seams a lot but as it transformed the bike it was well worth it. For full road test report click on their facebook page via their website home page.
Hope this helps.
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Forget the big bore kit.
Fit this.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KTM-1190-ADVE ... ycle_Parts (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KTM-1190-ADVENTURE-2013-Engine-/290998070094?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts)
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20% increase in BHP and torque is quite a claim for the work that was done, William. It must have run like a dog before? :shrug:
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That's just cheating <!-- s:neen: -->:neen:<!-- s:neen: -->
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That's just cheating :neen:
Yup probably.
The entire bike is for sale in bits.
The real answer to the tuning issue of course is to buy a Vee. (Or for the true connoisseur, a Cagiva Navigator).
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I nearly bought a Navigator a few year back that was for sale at M & S Motorcycles in the toon. By chance while I was looking at it I got speaking to the previous owner who had part-exed it for a Varadero. The tales of electrical woes put me off Cagiva's for life ! This thing was barely able to cover 500 miles between breakdowns and was on it's third ECU by 11,000 miles, eek. Looked lovely mind.
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20% increase in BHP and torque is quite a claim for the work that was done, William. It must have run like a dog before? :shrug:
Actually not so, it ran within its design parameters, no better or worse than most modern mass produced machines. However, those parameters, this retired test and development engineer found unacceptable.
To get back to Descoladas original post "Is there any such thing as performance tuning on a wee (AK9). Can the engine be tweaked to provide more power - without workshop performance testing tools/diagnostic how would you know that your wee is performing at its optimal efficiency?"
First some basic notes on engine/performance tuning; there are three areas that affect power output:
1. Internal modifications such as bore size, cam profile and valve size, etc.
2. External modifications such as exhaust size, end can design and inlet filtration methods, etc.
3. And this is the critical bit, the harmonization of all the various parts to deliver the optimum power and torque at any given revolution.
Back in the days of non ECU controlled power delivery there existed many talented men capable of such tasks who could extract that little extra that gave top racers that crucial edge. Men such as Tom Arter, Joe Craig, Francis Beart, etc became legendary names in engine tuning. These men could determine the optimum fuelling and ignition settings allied to spark plug readings to deliver the ultimate performance tuning.
With the advent of the ECU controlled motorcycle power units a new generation of tuner has emerged, however the principles remain the same I.e. number 3 of my basic notes.
So back to the principles of performance tuning; initially all original manufacturers specifications should be established (I.e. standard exhaust, spark plugs, air filter, valve clearances, etc.) then onto the dyno to check BHP and torque output at any given engine revolution. The modern tuner can then re-set the parameters of power delivery to suit a given riders requirements within the tolerances of average climate conditions and altitude variations. In many cases the average power increase on a variety of different make machines has been found to be approximately 20%. As a note, back in the days of carburettor equipped machines I often found that fitting slightly larger carbs to a machine even without gas flowing cylinder heads would when dyno tested increase power output by a similar 20%.
So to sum up, on modern ECU controlled machines remapping will give the maximum performance gain for the given financial outlay and that can be proven by the dyno read-out, any after-market bolt-on I.e. exhaust end can, air filter, etc, effectiveness can only be proven on a dyno test.
Not trying to be clever with this post but merely trying to answer the original post clearly and concisely.
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Not trying to be clever with this post but merely trying to answer the original post clearly and concisely.
William
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:16 am
Location: Carmarthenshire, West Wales
My Bike: DL1000 GT BLACK 2007
Current Mileage: 0
Top reply.
To return to the OP's question there will be ways of increasing the output.
From a personal point, I have made my bike more efficient by altering the air box, fitting a high flow air filter, replacing the restrictive and poorly designed exhaust system with a free flowing one.
I altered the mapping by fitting a timing retard eliminator and fitting a power commander to fine tune the fueling. I also installed a switchable resistor into the engine temp circuit to remove the cold start map of the ecu earlier.
I have had the bike set up on a dyno to map the power commander.
The results over the standard settings are stunning. Real world riding between 2500 and 7500 rpm give astonishing acceleration and flexibility. From 7500 onwards it's just rude.
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As far as I understand the TRE fools the ECU into thinking the bike is in the same gear all the time (4th was it?) so that the lower gears aren't restricted. Couldn't you do that with the Power Commander anyway?
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The power commander only sorts the fueling side of the process. (Mine is a PC2)
The Cagiva inherited the poor fueling from the TL 1000 due to Suzuki's rush to get the bike to market.
Cagiva remapped the Suzuki ECU to suit the adventure bike but didn't map it very well.
The original TL 1000's made the same BHP as the later phase 2 and phase 3 ECU equipped bikes but in a less dramatic fashion.
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I'm not sure if this is the right place to be asking this, but need some help.
I've just fitted a TRE (Cheap one from the net) to my Vee k6 and it feels so much smoother to drive in lower gears, But when its fitted the F1 light constantly flashes on and off and the red light in the middle always on and when I put it in gear the O/D light comes on?
Anyone any ideas?
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The TRE shouldn't cause this. What it will do is stop the OD appearing when the bike is in top gear. I suggest you remove the TRE and see if the F1 displays again. If it doesn't it would indicate a problem with the TRE. If is still comes on then you have a fault elsewhere which will need decoding and investigating.
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For some big horsepower how about a bit of this -
http://www.faliconcranks.com/index.html (http://www.faliconcranks.com/index.html)
750cc V-strom anyone ?
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The TRE shouldn't cause this. What it will do is stop the OD appearing when the bike is in top gear. I suggest you remove the TRE and see if the F1 displays again. If it doesn't it would indicate a problem with the TRE. If is still comes on then you have a fault elsewhere which will need decoding and investigating.
I removed the Tre and I have no lights flashing everything is OK :) ,so it must be the tre itself,(unless I am connecting it wrong)
I'm going to return it and order Ivan's Tre,
Before I order one Is this the right connection I was using in the picture?
and where is the best place to order Ivan's Tre?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JWdVcE5YU0I/Ussbj31HADI/AAAAAAAAAEI/06FF-3RJ2y0/s640/tre%2520pic.jpg)
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Looks like the right (and only) place it can be fitted. Am not familiar with Ivan's TRE. Mine was a cheapie off Ebay (£12?) and has never been a problem. Suggest you have a rummage around on the web.
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I sent the other one back.
My mate got one called Ivans tre but its expensive he paid £70.00 plus delivery so I ordered one of these from Ebay £27.50 plus postage,can use it on a 30 day trial,hopefully it works.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRE-GSX1400-T ... 2a046f20cf (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRE-GSX1400-TL1000-DL1000-SV1000-GSXR-600-1000-HAYABUSA-/180463018191?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2a046f20cf) :text-link:
Thanks hookie for the help!
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You could always remove the secondary throttle plates - the same effect as fitting a Tre without paying for it...I did it to mine 15,000 miles ago and haven't had any problems at all.
The Tre fools the bike into thinking its in 4th gear, so it doesn't restrict the bike by partially closing the throttle plates like it does in 1,2,3,5 & 6th.
Removing the plates means it thinks its restricting the bike, but of course, the plates are not there to be closed. The only difference is the bike will run slightly leaner at speeds over that of the restricted bike, so prolonged high speed running (over 120mph) might cause issues...
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I will see if the tre I ordered works if not I might try that,I have no idea what throttle plates are sorry <!-- s:text-imnewhere: -->:text-imnewhere:<!-- s:text-imnewhere: -->
As for prolonged speed over 120mph that won't be happening not on a vstrom,doesn't feel like its made for that speed not in my experience anyway,
Thanks man.
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The secondary throttle plates are accessed via the airbox, so, remove tank, remove top of airbox and filter & one butterfly plate is easily seen in the inlet tract of each cylinder. Simply remove the two screws on each spindle (carefully - you don't want one falling down the inlet into the cylinder) and then remove the thin metal plate with needle nose pliers (or fingers).
Once the air box is open it is all very obvious & you will see exactly what they are and how they are fixed in.
Took less than 2 minutes to do once the airbox was opened up & just as easily reversed, just pop the plates back in if you don't like the result (don't forget to loctite the screws).
Some have said they are loctited in and stiff to remove, but mine came out easily and it was a very simple job while I was in there changing the air filter & lockwiring the rear throttle body onto its cylinder.
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By all means remove the secondary butterflies, this will not alter the retarded timing in 1st and 2nd. That is what a Timing Retard Eliminator will do.
A Power Commander and a dyno session will transform the bike.
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Removing the secondary throttle butterflies (STBs) and fitting a TRE does different things. The TRE stops the ECU from retarding the ignition in the lower gears and removing the STBs keeps the throttle bodies wide open at high revs when otherwise the ECU would start to close them, reducing top end power. The TRE doesn't in reality do very much. Some report that the traditional rough low end running of the Vee is improved and perhaps a little more punch in the lower gears. Removing the STBs should extend the power at the top end but unless fuelling is altered to suit it is unlikely to be really useful. I suspect that the limiting factor here are the cams that are profiled to give good low/mid range torque rather than maximum top end b.h.p. It would seem that the best way to get maximum performance from a Vee (without fitting a TL1000 motor?) is to fit a TRE, remove the O2 sensor and STBs, fit a K&N filter, a pair of nice noisy cans, a Power Commander and get the whole thing set on a dyno with gas analysis by someone who really knows what they're doing.
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I fitted the new tre I ordered from ebay and it works perfect :grin:
I now know what the problem was,the new one I've ordered has three wires in each connecter, the other tre that I sent back had three on one connecter but only two wires coming from the other connecter?
That's what was making the fi light come on.
Here is a pic of the one I sent back, have a look at the lower connector (only two wires)
Might help someone else,
:ty:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T-6ISxJH0QY/UtbfQtlYazI/AAAAAAAAAFE/qzaoSyOQ_a8/s640/tre2%2520pic.jpg)