Suzuki V-Strom (VStrom) Owners Club DL250, DL650, DL1000 & DL1050
Oily Rag - Dedicated to Pat, Greywolf. 26/06/45 - 04/06/18 => Oil/Lubrication => Topic started by: TrevorKent on April 22, 2013, 17:40:13
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Hi everyone
I thought I had come up with solution to this problem by putting the bike on a paddock stand but to be honest it only hid the Issue. Spoke to my local dealer today and Suzuki are looking at this problem. It is I am told a problem with the new clutch cover which is double skin. I think all of us need to make it an issue with our dealer and therefore Suzuki. They will come up with an answer much quicker if enough of us are asking.
Trevor
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Hi all,
Weather has warmed up and the milky oil has gone. Anyone had a similar experience
Trevor
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HI Trevor, I merged your two topics. If things are related you should just post on your original thread rather than started a new topic :thumb:
The milky oil is usually just some condensation that gets into the engine. It can easily happen if the bike is ridden for short distances in colder weather or if it's been stood without riding at all over the colder months. Once you get it running up on temperature long enough and frequently enough for the water to evaporate and make it's way out of the system via the oil breather hoses that goes to the air box it clears without problems.
Opening the air box and squeezing the little sponge thing that sits over the oil breather in a dry rag will get a lot of water out quicker. You have to do this a few times after some longer rides to get rid of most of it.
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:thumb: what Juv Said
all the bikes I've had have had a little bit of moisture inside the filler cap in the winter months.
and those with oil windows show the milk stuff on the glass when it's been sat for a little while in the cold.
it's condensation!
what's with everyone in the last 6 months thinking this I a major issue? :crazy:
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What's with everyone in the last 6 months thinking this I a major issue? :crazy:
They're summer riders :neen:
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lol
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Not a summer rider me ride all year. Even though in the winter the journeys are shorter. None of my other bikes have had the issue hence the concern, but as the weather has warmed up its all clear now. :grin:
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Thanks Penfold, now fifty years old and ridden bikes since 17, all year round and not had an issue like this with a new bike Trevor
Thanks for the advice though Juvecu will do as you suggest, plus new to this forum business.
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We're just joking with our tongues firmly in our cheeks about the summer riders. Everyone gets to choose when they ride themselves. There are plenty of other reasons why the oil might be milky. I ride all year round and I see it every year on my bike during the coldest months.
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What is queer about the condensation on the inside of the sight glass on mine is that it hasn't been there during the winter (& I've kept on it where I could doing reasonable journeys) it's has only started appearing recently and it's generally after a run. There's nothing milky about the oil & there's no mayo inside the filler. I'll have a check on the breathers next time I'm out at it but, other than that or some iffy oil, It's got the garage as confused as I am..... :shrug:
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I never had milky oil on any of my Yamaha's. I have it on the Glee + sight glass still misted. Have ridden all year round since I got my first ride in Jan 2006.... I'll see what dealer mechanics think at its next service end of May
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Hi all,
Weather has warmed up and the milky oil has gone. Anyone had a similar experience
Trevor
I its disco man here my vstrom 650 does the same when spring comes it allways clears I've found most suzukis I have had has this problem its nothing new like Suzuki are saying keep. running it as much as you can in the winter I allways try and keep the motor going ie start it up every week when not in use and get it warm. cover end can with rubber glove
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Starting the engine if you aren't going to ride it for 20 minutes or so is a bad idea. Combustion produces water as a byproduct and other byproducts turn the water into acid. If you don't get everything hot enough to burn off the water, you are just putting pouring acid into the bike.
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Yup, only start it if you're going to ride it..
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HI Trevor, I merged your two topics. If things are related you should just post on your original thread rather than started a new topic :thumb:
The milky oil is usually just some condensation that gets into the engine. It can easily happen if the bike is ridden for short distances in colder weather or if it's been stood without riding at all over the colder months. Once you get it running up on temperature long enough and frequently enough for the water to evaporate and make it's way out of the system via the oil breather hoses that goes to the air box it clears without problems.
Opening the air box and squeezing the little sponge thing that sits over the oil breather in a dry rag will get a lot of water out quicker. You have to do this a few times after some longer rides to get rid of most of it.
Spot on. Have had this with a number of bikes for same reason. A good blast seems to solve it.
It can be sign of a blown head gasket (with water cooled lumps) but that is a much rarer happening.
My GSX1400 was habitual at this. It took around 30 to 40 miles to properly warm up. Anything less, and a few short trips, brought it all back again :groan:
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Well, this is still my sight glass after using through winter. With all the warm weather we've had, and recently changed the oil and filter along with some long rides at motorway speeds, I'd have thought it would have shifted but still no joy.
Any ideas on what might clear it? Might add some engine cleaner to the oil at the next change... (pic taken as soon as I returned from a 2 hour ride on some twisties)
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y362/clarkegray/Mobile%20Uploads/20150426_152453_zpsldr63u8r.jpg) (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/clarkegray/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150426_152453_zpsldr63u8r.jpg.html)
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Wow, mine has never looked that bad. My Daughters car oil does, but she rolls just over a mile to work and back.
I would have thought that 2 hour blast would have cleared that.
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I have an oil temperature gauge which replaces the oil filler cap. It may not read the exact oil temperature, but gives a good indication of trends. I have a 20 miles commute, and even when it's warm running at 60mph on A roads for the most part the oil temperature is about 55 degrees C, until I have a slow mile or so when it starts to rise to 60 degrees C. The oil temp only gets to about 60 deg C if running above 30 mph in the UK. To get it higher then a few miles of town commuting is needed. A couple of hours on the motorway, assuming legal speeds won't be as effective, IMO, as 30 minutes of cross town riding, stop / start running.
I'd recommend cleaning out the oil filler cap of any gunge in there, and also checking that the crankcase breather isn't blocked. If they're OK and you're certain the oil level window is OK, then take it for a cross town ride.
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Thank you for the replies. That's interesting about oil temperatures.
My usual commute is about 6.5 miles across Leeds and back with top speeds around 40mph, regular stop starts and filtering thrown in. There were also quite a few rides out and blasts down the motorway too (Bedford and back, Liverpool and back).
I'll do as suggested, check oil cap (didn't look that bad when changing the oil & filter), will check breather tubes and air filter, and do some slow riding. Hopefully that'll sort it. If not maybe an Italian tune up might (9-10,000 rpms for 4-5 miles might get the oil temp up :auto-dirtbike: :auto-dirtbike:)
Will let you know how I get on.
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Just came accross this thread - White or Milky oil known as Emulsification, seen this on older engines. The causes are condensation forming on the inside of the engine cases and the oil temperature not getting hot enough, or over cooling of oil. Couple of things also to look at, is the engine running cooler than normal from a possible sticking thermostat ( oil on Glee is watercooled) So if the engine temperature is not getting hot then the bad stuff in the oil won't evaporate / be burned off. Check coolant level. The chances you have a water leak on the headgasket is probably unlikely, but even so its worth checking and omitting the coolant level. If the emulsified oil doesn't clear, get to the dealer, as you may need an oil flush to prevent internal blockages within the engine oil galleries.
Would have thought the run out over the A66 would have got the oil nice and hot ;)
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Is it losing coolant? I had a Vw Scirocco that had a water cooled oil cooler just like the glee. The heat exchanger started to fail internally letting the oil and water mix. Maybe worth a look?
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Thanks all. I'll be checking this out today. I was in Padgetts yesterday and the salesman thought it might be worth pulling the cover and physically cleaning the glass... hope it doesn't come to that as reading the service manual/Sharealike's excellent guide (http://www.vibefreev.com/downloads.htm (http://www.vibefreev.com/downloads.htm)) it seems a bit of a pain just to clean the sight glass. That said, I suppose the engine coolant is about due a change, and if it's 100% clean I can see if it's a result of winter use or another problem causing it... (assuming not resolved today)
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I don't know if this will help but I bought one of the first new DL650 demos from Thunderroad motorcycles and it suffered with the milky/frothy oil problem. Thunderroad carried out a Suzuki approved engine breather mod which cured the problem and I believe the mod was implemented into the build of later models. :shrug:
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Thanks for the info. I'll speak to a dealer about that.
Well today I stripped it down. First check was coolant level:
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y362/clarkegray/Mobile%20Uploads/20150502_145300_zpswq8is1dg.jpg) (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/clarkegray/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150502_145300_zpswq8is1dg.jpg.html)
Phew all OK.
Next check air filter:
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y362/clarkegray/Mobile%20Uploads/20150502_120622_zpsoipy8np4.jpg) (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/clarkegray/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150502_120622_zpsoipy8np4.jpg.html)
Not too bad (was supposedly changed at a service at 11,056 miles on 05 Dec14)
Next remove air filter to check breather hose... :shock:
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y362/clarkegray/Mobile%20Uploads/20150502_120806_zpsah2lan8q.jpg) (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/clarkegray/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150502_120806_zpsah2lan8q.jpg.html)
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y362/clarkegray/Mobile%20Uploads/20150502_122240_zpsxhutgfui.jpg) (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/clarkegray/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150502_122240_zpsxhutgfui.jpg.html)
:bawl: :bawl: :-x :-x Holy crap!! Well that explains that! So thoroughly cleaned the sponge, including decreasing and drying. Cleaned out the air box - fortunately the sponge contained it. Ran the engine at idle for 15 mins. Re-cleaned air box again. Ran engine at idle for 20 mind, then went through the rev range for a few minutes. Re-created and reinstalled everything including a new(ish) K&N filter (thanks Zippy) and ran engine for another 5 mins.
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y362/clarkegray/Mobile%20Uploads/20150502_152347_zpshblp19w6.jpg) (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/clarkegray/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150502_152347_zpshblp19w6.jpg.html)
I think it's starting to clear a bit though am concerned by the amount of crap uncovered today in the air box. I'm going to check it out over the next few weekends in advance of a trip to Scotland at the end of the month.
Am still concerned by the amount of crap in it- stuck my finger in the oil filler opening and inside seems caked. I might buy some Motul engine clean and change the oil/filter again (only changed 200 miles ago and the dropped oil didn't look too bad).
I'm also concerned that my last service was at 14,858 miles on 06 June 14, which means given the air filter was changed 6 months before that, and a big chunk of the riding would have been summer/autumn, this has supposedly occurred over this winter which was relatively mild... (just hit 19,000 miles). I'll have to keep a closer eye on this in future.
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Mines exactly the same as this. Never had a problem on my Wee which done the same journeys as I do on the Glee. Have taken it for a good 100 mile run to get it nicely warmed up but no difference at all.
My only concern is that its quite difficult to check the oil level. So I popped into my local dealer today & had a chat. They're going to contact Suzuki so I'll wait for their response.
BTW the bikes 12 months old & only done 1400 miles.
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Thanks Sam. Which dealer did you go to? I'll pop in to York Suzuki at some point (though will email the pic to Suzuki myself). If there's a few of us with the same issue Suzuki might come up with something, assuming Lifebiker's post isn't their answer. This is the worst I've ever seen on a bike. Am hoping regular de-gunking will help clear this, but I don't have time /patience to pull the tank off regularly through winter. Of course I'm assuming that the dealers I've used for servicing have been inspecting/cleaning the air box/filters - I say this as in the 'Poorly Glee' thread the dealer insisted they don't have to remove the tank to service the bike inc inspecting air filter / changing sparkplugs... (they must use The Borrowers to do it for them)
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I went into CJ Ball's in Norwich, which was where I bought the bike from. I also showed them the post from Lifebiker, which they seemed interested in & said they may contact them, but will wait for Suzuki's response first.
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5 degrees C this morning, had three bars on the water temperature gauge after about 2 miles, and the oil temperature gauge was about 20 degrees C.
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Looks like cleaning the sponge in the air box has helped.
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y362/clarkegray/Mobile%20Uploads/20150511_203338_zpskew0leje.jpg) (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/clarkegray/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150511_203338_zpskew0leje.jpg.html)
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y362/clarkegray/Mobile%20Uploads/20150511_203406_zpsdaqhwrbb.jpg) (http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/clarkegray/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150511_203406_zpsdaqhwrbb.jpg.html)
Looks like regular(ish) cleaning through winter might be the answer... checked the sponge today and it's nice and clean, though a bit of water collected in the bottom of it.
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No response from Suzuki/dealer yet, so took the tank off yesterday. Found the same as UK_Vstrom650 in his above photos. But the foam was all squashed down at the bottom which may have restricted the breather somewhat. So I'm hoping it may be a bit better now its fitted correctly :shrug:
Shall see over the next week or 2.
Will also wait & see if the dealer bothers to reply :angry-tappingfoot:
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Had a phone call from CJ Ball (Suzuki dealer) yesterday. They said Suzuki had no record of any reports about this issue. But they offered a free oil change (as a goodwill gesture) to a different brand to see if that helps at all. They said they recently changed from using putoline to castrol, so will try going back to putoline in my bike. Its booked in for next week so I'll see if that makes any difference.
Fair dues to them, at least they are trying something!
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I can't really see how it can be down to the make of oil.....
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The dealer is stalling for time.
My daughters car is full of the same milky gunge because she only drives it a mile to work and back and it never gets a longer run.
It's physics and chemistry, not the oil brand.
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Mine seems to have cleared since cleaning the sponge. My too had been stuffed in so maybe that was the issue I.e. being scrunched up stopped evaporation? Will see at winter...
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Went into the dealers today for the free oil change.
My oil window still looked like this when I went in.
(http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz126/sven9865/Bike/BF811ACF-CCFF-4394-AA9B-0E96F08EB7C3_zpscgj5iwiz.jpg) (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/sven9865/media/Bike/BF811ACF-CCFF-4394-AA9B-0E96F08EB7C3_zpscgj5iwiz.jpg.html)
Left the dealers & decided to have a nice leisurely 30 mile ride to get home. Once home, checked the oil window & it was completely clear. I was rather surprised it had an effect so quickly.
(http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz126/sven9865/Bike/05856984-3062-4399-B0A3-06BDF4A2EB2E_zpsgmv4wpf1.jpg) (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/sven9865/media/Bike/05856984-3062-4399-B0A3-06BDF4A2EB2E_zpsgmv4wpf1.jpg.html)
(http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz126/sven9865/Bike/DD53E9F4-5D50-439B-8D65-41D513B5BDC0_zpsttedvumk.jpg) (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/sven9865/media/Bike/DD53E9F4-5D50-439B-8D65-41D513B5BDC0_zpsttedvumk.jpg.html)
Don't know if it was the new oil or different brand. Make of it what you will.
Popped back down to the dealers (they're only 2 miles down the road) & they seemed as surprised as me.
Anyway I'm happy now.
Also I was going to do an oil change before going on a euro tour in a few weeks - so its saved me £20 as well :)
If the same happens after next winter, I'll just do an oil change.
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What oil did you have before? The same now?
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Looking good Sam.
My money is still on the foam being squashed down causing this long lasting issue. Now you've sorted that & had fresh oil in whatever water was in there has evaporated off.
I've used a few brands of oil and usually get milky oil through winter, although this year it wouldn't have cleared unless I sorted that squished foam out.
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What oil did you have before? The same now?
The dealers said they put Castrol in before, but used Putoline this time.
The service bloke said maybe putoline oil has different detergents in it. :shrug:
My money is still on the foam being squashed down causing this long lasting issue. Now you've sorted that & had fresh oil in whatever water was in there has evaporated off.
I agree, the oil was probably contaminated & fresh oil made the difference.
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I can get my oil level window clean by doing another 20 miles on top of the usual 20 miles. So if new oil is needed then I'd say that there's something not right with either your bike, or mine.
As I've an oil temperature trend gauge on mine, I get a good idea of what helps keep the oil clear in the window / filler cap, or not. I'd recommend getting one for anyone who thinks they have a bike that likes making milky oil.
Here's an example of the oil temp trend gauge:
https://www.louis.de/en/artikel/oil-tem ... t=76229962 (https://www.louis.de/en/artikel/oil-temperature-gauge-m-d-diverse-models-fuer-Suzuki-dl-650-a-v-strom-l2/10034700?filter_bike_id=2784&list=76229962)
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That looks good John, might order one when I get back from my hols :thumb:
If the sponge in the airbox hadn't been stuffed in, I think the water vapour would have been able to evaporate during normal usage, but as it happens it was squished down and couldn't let the water vapour through, became clogged up and eventually built up within the oil.
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Hi all, I have the same issue on my 650, used daily 30-40 miles a day (about 1/2 hour trip each way).
Went from Northampton to Bury St Edmunds at the weekend averaging 80mph all the way & it hasn't cleared.
Checked the coolant level-all good.
I changed the oil & filter approx 3k ago before a trip up to Tobermory & around the North coast.
Temp level looks good on the dash.
Engine breather to check next :shrug: