Close call tonight...

[Juvecu]

So since you seem to be so knowledgeable on the subject, how about finding the relevant parts in the highway code to back your statement and prove mine wrong so that there is no confusion for anyone else then?

[Fat Rat]

Just an off topic (ish) observation, why oh why do car drivers insist on adding to traffic jams by leaving acres of space between them and the car in front when traffic builds up? It drives me nuts  

[kissofdeath]

Just an off topic (ish) observation, why oh why do car drivers insist on adding to traffic jams by leaving acres of space between them and the car in front when traffic builds up? It drives me nuts  

have wondered that myself, more so at traffic lights. but having said that it does leave a little extra room for us to nip into should the need occur

[iansoady]

The Highway code isn't law but failure to obey its provisions is generally taken as evidence of - at least - careless driving.

Section 163 applies: https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-t ... 162-to-169

*  only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so

*  stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left

You could argue that the second of these applied here but you'd be on a sticky wicket if a collision occurred.

[Jacko]

I undertake lane hoggers when traffic is so light the hogger is clearly taking the piss, new powers given to Police here acknowledge the problem. I'll do it as safely as I see fit after giving due time for the hogger to see the problem and move over. If this is seen and recorded by a patrol vehicle and they choose to prosecute I'll take my chances in court.

Two wrongs don't make a right but if you were following me for long enough to see me wait for the hogger to move, and then give up waiting and undertake, why didn't you pull him over?

[Juvecu]

So is there a law that explicitly forbids the act of undertaking in any other situation than what the highway code is saying you are allowed to do it in?

[frez]

There is no law that specifically prohibits it, they would have to charge you with careless driving, where your driving falls below the standard expected of a reasonable, prudent and competent driver. It is a subjective test, but overtaking on the inside might well be considered careless.

[Jacko]

Even assessed and carefully calculated undertaking?

[frez]

Personally I don't think its likely unless accompanied by other offences or is at such a speed it is considered reckless, but I'm no expert. I mean lets consider filtering on multi-lane highways, you are effectively undertaking the traffic in lane 3, and that's so acceptable I have even seen police bikes doing it.

[loggamatt]

"only overtake on the left if one of the following applies..." prohibits overtaking on the left when these things don't apply, doesn't it?

From my understanding, I would only overtake on the left, or 'undertake' in very slow moving traffic. If there is space to move to the right to overtake, I would always do that instead.

In the clip, I was ready to say it's your own fault for undertaking (though, the driver should have checked his blind spot regardless), then I noticed the brake lights. You maintained a constant speed, he braked and thus moved his vehicle beside yours, then he moved into your lane without checking his blind spot. Totally 100% his fault. Of course, it's possible that you were going to undertake him anyway... ?  

So hard to tell with filtering videos whether it's good or not, because it's difficult to get a proper sense of speed or distance from a video. The filtering looks too fast on video, but you say it wasn't so it's probably just a trick of the camera. But yeah, I'd have filtered in that situation too... traffic doesn't have to be stationary to make it OK to filter, just very slow moving.

[Strommer]

Police in London have made clear that they will not prosecute undertaking unless blatantly dangerous (weaving in and out, of which there is a bit).

Personally I think the danger is undercruising where the lanes move at various speeds and left laners cease to treat every pass of a car as a 'take of whatever type.

Whether legal or not, same rules apply, assess the situation, get past fast, and get into a safe new position.  I also add "...assume they haven't seen you and if they have they will try and kill you..."

[loggamatt]

Yeah, as always, London is a little different I think If I'm honest, there are probably over-under-filtering-taking moves that I would pull in London that I wouldn't elsewhere. Can I justify that? Probably not... but in slight mitigation I would say that sometimes in London you have to take gaps where you can find them otherwise you'll never get anywhere. Also, I try to be vigilant and always assume there is unseen danger, people about to step out in front of stopped buses, hidden junctions, things like that. Plus I do tend to think that other road users are more on the look out for bikes, scooters and pedal cycles in London than elsewhere because there are so many of them. Not that I rely on that of course.

So, London is a bit of a law unto itself if you ask me as far as road use goes... but in the rest of the country I personally would only undertake if traffic is moving slowly in all lanes.

[nelmo]

To be boring and sit on the fence, I would have said blame is 50-50; the driver didn't look in his blind-spot properly but the bike was under-taking when you shouldn't have been.

IMO, you have to ride with the expectation that drivers will NOT look in their blind spot and will NOT see you - it's the only way. I've seen and had numerous near-misses like this over the years and you can argue all you like about whose fault it is but, at the end of the day, you'll be arguing from a hospital bed while the driver will be trying to buff out the slight graze on his bumper.

You also can't brand the driver as 'bad' because of this one transgression - he may have changed lanes 20 times in that journey and always checked his blind-spot the other 19 times - it was just your bad luck the one time he didn't, you were there. I say this because, as a car driver as well as a biker, I have had rare times when I have missed entire cars (never mind bikes) in my blind spot but I don't consider myself a bad driver - we're all just human and can make mistakes.

[putbinoot]

I am surprised about the amount of people that keep referring to undertaking when the traffic is moving in lanes as there is no such offence as far as I am aware, as for him indicating, indicating does not give you the right to make the move it only signals your intention you still have to make sure that your movement is safe to carry out. Filtering seemed fine to me you just have to be more aware when there is gaps in the traffic as someone always wants to jump into another lane.

[frez]

You are quite right, I pointed out above that the offence you would be prosecuted for is careless driving:

See http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road ... d_driving/

I.e.

There are decided cases that provide some guidance as to the driving that courts will regard as careless or inconsiderate and the following examples are typical of what we are likely to regard as careless driving:

- overtaking on the inside;
- driving inappropriately close to another vehicle;
- inadvertently driving through a red light;
- emerging from a side road into the path of another vehicle;
- tuning a car radio; when the driver was avoidably distracted by this action;
- using a hand-held mobile phone or other hand-held electronic equipment when the driver was avoidably distracted by that use (note that this is an offence itself under Regulation 110 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003).  If this is the only relevant aspect of the case it is more appropriate to use the specific offence;
- selecting and lighting a cigarette or similar when the driver was avoidably distracted by that use.

These examples are merely indicative of what can amount to careless driving. In addition, prosecutors should note that some of these examples also fall within the examples of dangerous driving.

[Fatbelly]

All this talk of the Highway Code and the law is irrelevant.

If you don't learn to anticipate that kind of stuff you will get hurt.

[stevee_p]

Yeah I've certainly learnt my lesson in terms of between ng wary of getting in people's blind spots. And that's how it was. I wasn't trying to, nor sitting in it. He changed speed (not to mention lane) thus putting me into his blind spot. I didn't think he was going to try what he did else is have taken several different options such as slow down too etc.

It wasn't my fault, but it does make me see how I could change my riding style to avoid these in the future.

[SimonW]

All this talk of the Highway Code and the law is irrelevant.

If you don't learn to anticipate that kind of stuff you will get hurt.

+1

Who gives a sh*t who's in the right/wrong?! Shouldn't the question always be - "what could *I* do differently so this never happens again?", whatever the situation?  :confusion-shrug:

[Jacko]

This is true, of course. We should be careful about shouting about it though, if poor, unobservant drivers think we're happy to drive for them there's no incentive for them to improve. The responsibility for their errors rests with them, saying that it's always us that come off worse so it's up to us to ensure we don't end up springing their loaded road traps isn't the way to go here.

[John316]

As this issue has generated so much discussion, let me throw in what Bikesafe site says about "Filtering" in general (a little wordy)   :-

Filtering is one of the real benefits of riding a bike and a reason so many of us commute to and from work. We need to accept that it can be quite risky. Riding a motorbike is all about ‘risk management’. We are constantly balancing competing demands, the need to get somewhere over the need to stay safe. We all have a threshold of acceptable risk, that threshold is not the same for everyone. I see this demonstrated every day by motorcyclists, as I filter on my journey to work, I am quicker than some and slower than others. So, in general, my threshold of acceptable risk is higher than some and lower than others. I believe this threshold rises as we become more familiar with the task. We reach a state of mind that convinces us that because nothing bad has happened yet then the task must be safe. So we should keep asking ourselves, “Are we really riding safely?”

When filtering we are relying on others to ‘do the right thing’. We are placing our trust in others not to change lanes without looking or shut the gap as we pass. If I asked you to give me your bank card and the pin number but I promised not to withdraw any money you wouldn’t even consider it but you will place your safety in the hands of another you have never even met and whose driving skill or state of mind you don’t have a clue about.
That last sentence sums it all up for me.      Ride safe blokes