Suzuki V-Strom (VStrom) Owners Club DL250, DL650, DL1000 & DL1050
Other Stuff => The Blue Oyster bar => Traitors Corner => Topic started by: Mr Nick on June 27, 2018, 17:16:51
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I have been quietly rooting around for a while now looking for my next purchase - the SV was a stop-gap project (and for sale just now in case anyone was interested), but I wanted something a bit different and biggish.
Thanks to the wonder that is fleabay, I now own this:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ee95zpmeg0nozb8/s-l16001.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/rniinbe9q20q9r5/s-l16004.jpg?raw=1)
A 1989 Moto Guzzi 1000 SPiii. She's still with it's old owner while we await her transportation, but should be with me soon as the chaps I've got in do a run up here at least once a week.
Basic history: 1 owner from new until last year - off the road since '96 (family); bought early last year and put back on the road and been on continental and highland trips since then, but still under 25k miles. Totally original & unmolested (like me...).
I checked the 'how many left' site and there are now a whole 4 of these bikes on the road in the UK (it was one last year!) - don't think I'm in much danger of meeting another on the road.
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:eusa-doh: Looking forard to watching it progress
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I've never seen such a heavily faired Guzzi. That screen deserves its own post code.
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Yeah, 'expansive' is a fair description of it. I think there was an optional chair lift to the top of the screen!
The fairing covering all the mechanicals is one thing that the period reviews commented on. I'm wondering if there's any way to lose the lower 2/3 of it and not compromise the look or the rigidity of the remainder? I suspect the diagonal sharp line of the top part might make that a non starter.
It is a child of the eighties - some crap influences are to be expected.
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:eusa-doh: Looking forard to watching it progress
Not sure if I'm intending doing a lot to her to be honest - there's very little jumping out at me as needing work done. I'm looking at re-doing the fork legs as I see what looks like a bit of flaked paint, and the scuffs on back edge of the right fairing could do with fixing. The dark/light/dark paint scheme makes that a sight harder to pull off, but there is the trim line that I can probably use to get away with not quite perfect fade-ins.
I don't envisage ending up with a pile of parts on the ramp this time around.
You know that's still a possibility though. :shy:
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That looks mega, I'm sure Wurzel had a topbox that would suit it. :stirpot:
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lol lol...I want that screen!
My maligned top box is a tardis in its own right.... :ty:
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I concur about the screen. It looks like you could use it to rest your forehead on while you are riding. No buffeting would be experienced! There's something I always find appealing about Guzzis. Looking forward to this...
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I hadn't really considered whether it was the original screen or not as the old reviews spoke of it being a bit 'in your face': quite clearly it isn't now I actually look...
I see that the correct ones are available in some places in the states, and Wemoto list standard & tall screens for £40, so I do have options it seems.
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Well if you do change the screen you could make a good sized greenhouse from that one... lol
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Don't forget to keep a spare starter motor in the luggage :smirk:
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My V50 was on it's 40 year old original starter as far as I could tell, and I only changed it because I took it apart & some bits went wheeeee past my ear... :shy:
I'm reading Guzziology now and the SP3 came with the Valeo starter that was man enough for the big valve 1000: it out performs the other brands because it runs reduction gears, but you don't run it for more than 5 seconds without a wee rest or you kill it.
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A wee bit like me then... :)
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As much as 5 seconds???
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Never. :old:
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New bike arrived Friday courtesy of motorcycledeliveryuk.
I took the fairing off today just to get a better look at the beastie:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/655es9yc5sfjtqs/20180708_160526.jpg?raw=1)
It's pretty much what I was expecting condition-wise: everything original & one-restored. Frame looks generally fine so not seeing the need to do anything major.
There's a few things that will be dealt with over the closed season - few chips on one fork stanchion so they could be away to the chromers:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/chid69s0wfbr2k9/20180708_152115.jpg?raw=1)
Bit of corrosion on the fork sliders so powder coating in order; same with the footpeg hanger.
Wheels are a little scruffy, especially the rear - have to think about what to do as I'm not sure whether powder coating is an option with the black & silver
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9kzhyp1qu8wt8k/20180708_152034.jpg?raw=1)
I will be doing a full service as I can't be sure when the filters were all done. Oil filter is a sump off job as it lives inside - not a serious job as it's just a rake of allen bolts to drop it. The air filter: well, that's a different story...
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/fxeq9mw879tubxc/20180708_160327.jpg?raw=1)
I have no idea so far as to how to change that - it's between the cylinders & under the frame. Might be the carbs have to come out? I'll do some digging around first.
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keep them pictures coming. :thumb:
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Will do.
Tonight I had another look at the air filter housing: I can see why so many get converted to the dual outlet K&N ones!
I now have the old filter element out, and pretty manky it is too. The sequence seems to be: seat, tank and side panels off; battery out; battery tray out; unbolt & remove the front battery strap; loosen the carb to airbox hose jubilee clips; prise the hoses out of the airbox; remove bolts that hold airbox parts together; pull airbox back into battery space; remove filter. Like this
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/dvuy55ndqe2x6j6/20180709_194717.jpg?raw=1)
I did disconnect the carb completely which wasn't necessary, but it made getting the airbox hose out.
Re-assembly *may* be the reverse of removal... :shrug:
Seeing the state of the air filter, I'm not trusting the oil filter as I'm not seeing any evidence of the dirt on the sump having been disturbed any time recently, and the oil is pretty grotty looking. The original owner did say he'd done the oil before parking it, but did suggest changing it: the last owner said he'd changed it over the winter, but has done about 1,000 miles since and, if the filter's not been done, then the crap in the sump wouldn't have been cleaned out. I have a full service kit on its way to me so might as well.
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Service parts arrived today so air filter & plugs replaced, along with the speedo drive inner cable as that broke at the weekend.
Oil filter fitted (mileage & date written on it) and I also fitted a device called a Stahlbus drain valve:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmcb0razzcp28is/20180711_195911.jpg?raw=1)
This replaces the sump plug and allows you to drain the oil without risking stripping the threads in the sump. It's just a case of remove the cap, push in the drain hose & wait for the oil to empty into a suitable container:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/m45vxipkfrh95x9/20180711_200905.jpg?raw=1)
I have a set of stainless allen bolts on the way to replace the current manky ones holding the sump on, so I'm stuck here in terms of the oil, but I think I'll go check the valve clearances meantime... :fix:
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I like the idea of the drain plug can you get them for any bike? :thumb:
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They do a fair few thread sizes so I'd say probably yes.
Take a look here: http://www.stahlbus.com/info/en/products/application-list-for-bikes (http://www.stahlbus.com/info/en/products/application-list-for-bikes)
Just a case of finding a UK seller or ordering from Germany/France. MandP sell a couple so maybe can get others? I got mine from Gutsibits so might be worth a call to them to see if they'd entertain a non Guzzi order.
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Thanks for that will take a look. :thumb:
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I've been busy the last few days.
Servicing now complete - all oils changed and filters replaced. The gearbox and final drive oil looked pretty grotty so who knows how long it's been since they were done. Although the exhaust is in good nick, I'm tempted to put a Keihan stainless one on as the balance 'pipe' is a huge pressed steel affair that gets right in the way of the gearbox drain and had to come off, which was good 2 hours yesterday off and on.
I was out later on to check things were OK and I used the headlight in anger for the first time. I was somewhat concerned that the voltmeter barely dragged itself up to 12v and the charging light had a definite glow to it. I found that one of the 3 wires in the connector under the tank that goes to the reg/rec was corroded and probably not really conducting any electrons. I've replaced the terminal & I'll fire it up later to see if I have decent ziggies going to the battery.
I've also been swapping over a lot of the original fasteners to stainless: this is my pile so far...
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/y93qgrvd0ebho4k/20180715_152852.jpg?raw=1)
That's all from the sump, alternator, rocker covers, top box rack, rear shocks, driveshaft, exhaust and some others.
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This is the offending crossover on the exhaust: it fills the whole space between the stand and the sump which means you struggle to get enough movement to unhook the front pipes from the heads.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/9awxbl5861iy68e/20180715_193907.jpg?raw=1)
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And still the pile of replaced fasteners grows - see what happens when you give someone time off work and a box of assorted stainless bolts...
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/amul2x2y6rp5yhb/20180716_191904.jpg?raw=1)
That's the pannier rails, fairing frame, windscreen mounts & ignition boxes done - need to get some M10 bolts to move into the calipers, triple clamps & the like.
Charging issue seems sorted - the onboard voltmeter is a bit pessimistic but there is now decent voltage getting to them battery with the lights on, even at a little above tickover. I'm going to stick a digital voltmeter on to check what the voltage is at speed - my multimeter says 14v when the onboard one says 13v: don't want to cook the battery.
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:thumb: :eusa-doh:
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I am very wary of stainless fasteners in alloy cases, it can cause fast corrosion of the case threads on our salty roads, just a tip.
http://www.preservationscience.com/materials/metals/PGC.html
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If I'm reading the chart correctly, both "steel" and austenitic stainless fasteners into aluminium are rated B, and so pose no additional "threat". The common stainless bolts seem to be classed mainly as A2 or A4, so don't really tie up with the chart (and as far as I'm aware austenitic and martensitic relate to structure of the steel caused by differing alloying constituents/proportions, and generally relevant to high-temperature characteristics, for example when used for exhaust valve manufacture).
Does anyone know which category the generally-available stuff falls into?
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It's an old Guzzi - those bolts'll be in and out every month! :icon_wink:
But, what great words (austenitic and martensitic). New to me, I must read up on that!
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I have used A4 marine grade in the bolts which are likely to be exposed to inclement conditions, and those with greater tensile needs as the A4 it closer to 8.8 steel in that regard. A2 is the normal stainless you'll buy and it's fine in most applications. I don't intend riding the old girl in crappy weather so the corrosion resistance is fairly moot, but they definitely improve the look.
And the A2 & A4 steels are austenitic.
Talking of bolts, I really need to pay attention to what I order late at night - went to bed having ordered M10x25, M10x40 and M10x60: woke up to find I'd actually ordered 25, 30 and 35mm.... They won't go to waste but I need to order the right ones now...
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Cool bananas, you know your metals well, fascinating subject I find even though I'm new to it. :)
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:eusa-doh: keep them pictures coming. :thumb:
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I removed the steering damper today as I'm not sure it's still OK: what do you lot think?
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/qhbmy54fnhgqe80/20180721_121801.jpg?raw=1)
I'll see how she feels without it and decide whether to look for a replacement or not.
I see a curious breather setup on this bike: The rocker boxes & crankcase breathe into the frame. I've seen plenty bikes where the frame is used for oil, but can't say I've seen another like this.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ttsx9qycedpdg1/20180721_124900.jpg?raw=1)
That shows one of the rocker boxes breather - the other goes to opposite end of the cross bar, and the crankcase is connected near the front end of the main tube. Farther up the main tube is also connected to the bottom of the airbox.
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I thought it wise to have a quick look at the state of the brake fluid:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ouhu2l89s7h61oo/20180723_184224.jpg?raw=1)
I know that it's not really meant to look like coke so went ahead and changed the front right brake.
That leaves me with the harder part - the linked rear/front left system.... I'm actually minded to hang off until I replace the flexi hoses with stainless and take the hit all at once as these can be a complete bampot to bleed and there are 3 hoses to swap for the linked half alone.
I know I ended up with the front caliper hanging from the hoist on the V50 trying to clear the air bubbles, and it doesn't have the proportioning valve to make it even harder. The brakes do work fine as they are, but I'm not overly happy with leaving that muck in there. I might syringe out the fluid in the master cylinder as a token effort for now.
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Forgot that I own a one man bleeder thingy! :fix: Rear half bled comparatively OK this time, but the rear caliper bleed screw is a bitch to access....
Bear in mind that this contains a fair bit of new fluid. :shock:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/gajea0zwrd8xv07/20180723_200034.jpg?raw=1)
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Wow... That is some dark brake fluid there. I don't blame you for waiting on the linked brakes until you swap the hoses.
I do like reading these updates. :ty:
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Replace the steering damper it will need it. :thumb:
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Regarding the steering damper, satin black and autosol will be fine, I've ridden far worse blah, blah, blah. :old:
The breather system is rather clever, it's a pity Suzuki don't route the Strom's to the spokes then wouldn't rust lol
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The grips on the bike are foam, but the years have not been kind to them: they were both smaller and shinier than intended. This left me without the confidence in whether the throttle was turning as much as I wanted, made worse by the resistance from the fairly strong springs in the carbs.
Old v new:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/goc14f4lpd13nsv/20180725_182341.jpg?raw=1)
I'm not overly keen on the current metal plug caps so they had to go. Apart from looks, the resistance can break down over time & cause issues, so a pair of NGK ones took their places.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrcy2e1x0trrmvs/20180726_170547.jpg?raw=1)
There's a Guzzi club lunch this Sunday in the Borders I am hoping to go to, but the forecast swings from OK to peeing rain & back several times a day...
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Rain put an end to any hope of meeting up with the rest of the Guzzi boys today so the devil found work for idle hands....
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/wsgmut3za0qvryd/20180729_185904.jpg?raw=1)
I wanted to drop the bottoms off the carbs to check float heights & the jets so decided to take them out altogether. This also let me have a better look at the airbox, which I thought had bolts in odd places. It turns out that there are 4 extra holes in the back half that have been drilled but serve no purpose - two were blanked off by the errant bolts, the others had bits of hose in, which were sealed with a bolt jammed in the end.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/i88e6btprmodtqa/20180729_192843.jpg?raw=1)
I've put the feelers out for a replacement.
I also drained the oil from the forks: well, tried to - there was nothing in the right! What came out the left was interesting - both runny and lumpy at the same time. The oil doesn't perform any function in terms of damping at least - it's really just there to lubricate as the damping is taken care of by a self contained cartridge. 70cc of ATF now in each.
The nut/bolt replacement program continues: now up to about 4 pounds of scrap...
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hz72u4lj5u1srj/20180729_193636.jpg?raw=1)
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Mr Nick, you've just posted a picture of the contents of a 1200 GS final drive.
How thoughtful.
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Might steal that for my profile pic.....
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Nah, can't be a GS final drive.
There's no remnants of drive splines, oil seals or bits of collapsed bearings.
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IIRC the airbox holes are some sort of jungle tune-up gobbledygook. I think you plan of getting a new one the starting the carb set up from scratch is best.
Andy
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I tend to agree Andy that it's an attempt at improving the intake - but the holes are on the wrong side of the filter and behind the heads. Who thought introducing hot dirty air was a tune up???
The good thing is that they were all closed off so carb changes should be minimal as she runs reasonably OK, but she'll be checked anyway.
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A couple of updates on the airbox front: Gutsibits say they're still available at a very reasonable price, so quick call to them tomorrow to order. However, looking at September as Italy is about to go on holiday...
Since I need the bike before then, I drew up plugs for the holes and rattled them off on the printer:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7u96azowtkfc5ht/20180731_203416.jpg?raw=1)
The holes were all slightly different sizes so I had to make a couple of versions.
All glued in and airbox is sealed again.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/mvssxmwkywpcw75/20180731_203553.jpg?raw=1)
I do have black filament, but the smoke was already in the printer, the airbox itself isn't really black any more and it's temporary, so it'll do for now...
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I've been re-assembling the Guzzi this week and had to replace a few bits along the way: today's thing was the battery tray. The original one was, how shall I put this... a little brittle. It had been slowly shedding bits of itself every time I touched it and I accidentally leaned on it one night, with this being the result...
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/kk1ydq8o3mrgzzg/20180803_173152.jpg?raw=1)
As you see, new one is here and duly fitted.
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I like the 3D printed hole plugs. These printer wotchamacallits seem to have a multitude of uses.
:eusa-doh: love this thread. Keep it coming...
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Biggest task with one is to actually print things you need, not just little models to fill the house & office: I think it took me about 6 months before I achieved that when I did a couple of spacers for the garden shredder.
Usually it's stuff like this:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ovrdtqglz93yust/20180803_234401.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/l260thpuwkzxs20/20180803_234437.jpg?raw=1)
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After putting everything back together I went for a run Saturday morning. Mostly things were OK, but I was aware of a noise from the front end over bumps. It could be forks, it could just be fairing banging a bit.
Back home I decided to strip the forks just to eliminate anything there: despite the fact that I changed the oil last week, this is what came out...
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/yglset523syhxdv/20180806_194438.jpg?raw=1)
I'm struggling the see any trace of the clear red AQF I put in!
Not only does it look manky, there's so much shit in it that it's too thick to even soak into the paper towel. :shock:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/247pyzz0sd973eb/20180806_194627.jpg?raw=1)
The original owner listed everything he had done in the back of the handbook: I can't see any reference to a fork oil change, so that could have been there for 24k miles and 29 years...
Everything else looked OK so I'm putting the noises down to the fairing, which I'll take a look at the mounting of later.
Remember the brake fluid? (check page 2 if you don't) I see an entry for it being changed at 20k miles - only 4k ago: however, that was 1995 so no wonder it looked dodgy!
I've had a look at the wiring diagram to see if my suspicions that the voltmeter is plumbed into the light circuit is correct: it is, which explains the large drop when I switch them on. I might change where that is fed from to see if it can be a bit less of a fibber. I also know which wire feeds the power from the reg to the charging light, which also seems a tad pessimistic. A little digital voltmeter is on order that will be connected across the battery to give me a real sense of what is going on.
I've also just discovered that the indicator buzzer isn't an aftermarket add-on, despite the appearance of the wiring connectors suggesting such.
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Great stuff, Mr Nick :thumb: :eusa-doh:
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Wow :shock: That fork fluid looks :-x You planning a deep clean or just going to refresh the oil in them again
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The forks were dismantled this time & all that crap cleaned out: fairly simple task with the self contained damper units. Take the bolt out of the bottom of the slider & let it drop, unscrew the top mount and the guts lift out.
Rebuilding is equally easy: drop the spring/damper unit in, re-attach the bottom, pour in 70cc AQF and screw the top back on. No farting about with oil levels.
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Nice One Mr Nick :thumb: :text-goodpost:
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My little digital voltmeter arrived today so I took the seat & tank off yet again to figure out how I wanted to wire it in. While I was looking, I spotted a couple of wires I wasn't sure of the purpose of: turns out they were meant to be some basic hidden switch immobiliser that the original owner fitted. When I say meant to be, I'm going to show you the wires:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/we6mg6h9zk8bhab/20180808_175911.jpg?raw=1)
The 2 black wires opposite each other without insulation are the 2 that are connected to the switch. No other connections, just 2 to an earth.
I may not be the world's greatest electrical expert, but I'm pretty confident saying that it actually does sod all...
In the paperwork that went with the bike to the last owner, there is mention of this switch - 'switch in forward position: bike runs, switch pointing backwards: bike won't start'. The reality though was - switch forward: bike runs, switch backwards: bike runs, switch ripped out & lying on garage floor: bike runs... (forget about the kill switch being 'backwards': bike doesn't start :shy:)
I don't know if he'd meant to connect the ignition box earths (the 2 yellow/green wires) to one of the wires and route them via the switch to earth, but his execution of the plan was fundamentally flawed.
Taking a look further down the notes, he said he'd changed the brake fluid, presumably when preparing her for sale I.e. early last year. If that is the case, then something has gone really south in the meantime. If the rubber hoses are starting to deteriorate inside then I could see the fluid being contaminated within them: but the horrible brown was right the way through the fluid, including in the reservoirs.
I had always planned to replace the hoses with braided, but this might bring that plan forward from the closed season. I'll keep an eye on what's happening to the fluid over the next few weeks and go from there - everything feels OK so I'm not overly worried. I'm also not a great user of brakes: v twin engines do most of the work for me....
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That picture really should contain a warning Mr Nick or at least a link to a help line. The Whitworth Giant will have an attack of the vapours when he sees those wires. :shock:
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Oh Lordy, I feel faint...
What bolt are the offensive wires attached to? I can see a bleed nipple.
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Guzzi electrics with a sprinkling of Uncle Joe Lucas. The bleed nipple was fitted to let the smoke out. My later model Cagiva benefits from a vented loom. :thumb:
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It's OK TP - that is a chassis bracket that the ignition units are meant to be attached to. The bleed nipple is on the load proportioning valve that sits behind the left side panel. Here's the context:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/094ddzul2ldxnck/20180809_183441.jpg?raw=1)
You can see the yellow of the earth wires under the right white connector.
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I've still been pottering about with the SP3 since my last post: just doing a few things here & there.
Last Saturday I took her out, intending to put in a good few miles in prep for this weekend's planned trip to the West coast (which the weather scuppered anyway...). I was trying a different helmet as I find my usual one is fairly noisy in combination with the screen - the other was just the same so I needed a different solution (more alter).
One thing I found very early on was that the bike accelerated when I turned right, so trip was cut short. I quickly figured out that I'd put both the throttle cables on the same side of the airbox, leaving the right one just a bit short.
Since the fairing sides were off, I decided to take the main part off as well & check the brackets & wiring. Those of you who remember my V50 build may recall the absolute mess the wiring of it was in, and it was all wrapped in blue tape, so you'll understand my terror when I saw this...
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/hwg8w6sx2odg5cd/20180815_190031.jpg?raw=1)
Thankfully, it was only protecting proper spade connectors and some heatshrink is now in place instead.
The helmet noise issue I feel is down to how the air is going past the fairing so I'm going to try something. I've printed off six of these:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/85qhsaciz81mgvm/20180818_115930.jpg?raw=1)
and I'm using them to lift the screen away from the fairing by 10mm:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/6f8w2m0p3oed6mk/20180818_120535.jpg?raw=1)
My thinking is to allow some air in & both provide some ventilation for me, and disrupt whatever airflow is causing the noise, I'll give it a try & see how it goes.
The replacement program continues - now I have all this spare:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/b35xuqi0lvfs7w3/20180818_131034.jpg?raw=1)
Which meant I had to do a re-supply order to replenish the stocks:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7rg6oailrzilyul/20180818_122652.jpg?raw=1)
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Just been out to play with a toy I bought a while back but never got around to going anything useful with: a USB endoscope/borescope.
Here's what the cylinders look like up close:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6rlo3zat1s6sss/Snapshot000003.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/9z75f14toc35kx6/Snapshot000004.jpg?raw=1)
The original honing is still quite apparent & I'm not seeing anything untoward, so happy with that.
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That looks like Luigi was honing that day, I'd recognise his crosshatching anywhere.
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I tried the screen spacers at the weekend: not sure they do anything yet as the helmet noise was still there. I might try them with the tall screen as well as the problem with that one was lack of ventilation in the hot weather & what wind there was kept shutting my visor. I have shorter bolts on their way as I needed the about the one size I don't have.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/r5x0rd4xbbbi1nv/20180822_191715.jpg?raw=1)
I also want to share the interesting angle that the side stand allows the bike to go over to: it's a design issue and they all do that sir.... There is the option of swapping the lower chassis rail and stand for those from a Cali, but they're not easy to come by. I'm looking to weld about an inch block onto the bottom of the foot & hopefully that will bring it back up to a more acceptable angle.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/dhxc9mh5n9tvw7o/20180825_105351.jpg?raw=1)
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That looks like Luigi was honing that day, I'd recognise his crosshatching anywhere.
lol lol
When I saw those photos I thought you were sharing astonomical pics!
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I found an ebay listing today that suggests I'm sitting on a gold mine:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Moto-Guzzi-1000-SP-Screws-engine-screws/273465446868?hash=item3fabcf91d4:g:7EIAAOSwZ~tbnrpe (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Moto-Guzzi-1000-SP-Screws-engine-screws/273465446868?hash=item3fabcf91d4:g:7EIAAOSwZ~tbnrpe)
I must have at least twice that amount in the scrap pile!