Author Topic: A dickhead through and through  (Read 5840 times)

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ProfG

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A dickhead through and through
« on: December 23, 2016, 18:10:33 »
I certainly will not apologise for the choice of words. This fellow should be out digging a road instead of driving a car.



Offline greywolf

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2016, 19:20:08 »
As a former motorcycle safety instructor, a few things jumped out at me faster than the red car jumped out in front of you.

I have to wonder if you were going too fast for conditions. How fast were you going in relation to the speed limit? Even the speed limit can be too fast in weather like that. You were going much faster than the car in front of you that you were trying to overtake. The red car started the turn when the lane was clear and you were behind a car. He probably already moved his line of sight to where he was going before you changed lanes. Loud pipes don't help. They are not going to be heard that far in front, especially with rain drumming the car roof. Almost all the increase in sound comes from behind the bike. Running lights are a good idea, especially mounted low on both sides to create a triangle along with the headlights. A right angle turn into the fast lane of a multi lane highway is an unfortunate road design.

Bike riders are more vulnerable and need to take a defensive posture on the road, even more so in bad weather. Being aggressive does not suit the circumstances. I'd rather be safe than right.

This is the story of Mike O'Day,
who died preserving the right of way.
His way was right and his will was strong,
but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. 2012 DL650A outlasted me.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 (K2-L2) DL1000s. Veek=2014+ (L4+) DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 (K4-L1) DL650s. Glee = 2012+ (L2+) DL650s

Offline frez

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2016, 20:07:24 »
I've got to say, Greywolf has a point or two, you must have seen the car but decided to move into the lane anyway when there was a chance he would pull out. There's even every chance the car in front of you flashed his lights to give him the option of pulling out.

If you expect someone to do something daft, you're not surprised when they do, it's no comfort being in the right when you're lying on the ground.
Now on a Super Tenere having put 64k miles on a 2011 DL650

ProfG

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2016, 21:09:58 »
You both have a point and I anticipated this discussion especially about speed and line of sight.

The speed limit on that road is 50 mph; the road is a dual lane dual carriageway. The full video is not shown here, but the fellow came out of a side road on the other side of the carriageway. He had to traverse 2 lanes and then get into the 'turning lane', so in effect he had three lanes. The third 'lane is where vehicles tend to stop to let the oncoming traffic pass before they join the opposite carriageway.

The road from my line of sight is uphill and from his line of sight looking in my general direction is downhill. There are no objects that would obstruct his line of vision.

As to the rain, well it had rained earlier and the road was wet, but at that moment the rain had stopped so there would not be anything that would impair his vision besides some road spray which in his case was not a factor since he was neither facing nor following any vehicle (he was in a transverse position cutting through the carriageways).

I take GW's point, however As an IAM observer that observes, comments and advises other riders I am quite familiar with various potential hazards and once I saw him pull out I did slow down in anticipation. The vehicle that I overtook was doing 30 mph. The driver of the red car has to stay in his position between the central reservation for ll vehicles to pass. The car in front could have decided to turn right or move into the right hand lane for some reason. Had he done that I would have enough power on my bike to get out of his way or even slow down and move into the left most lane.

I only put this video out to show that some drivers do not give a toss about bikers. I had a similar situation in Scotland returning from Ayr where an articulated M&S lorry jumped the roadworks red light and then showed me the finger. Well, he was reported to M&S and I hope they dealt with him accordingly.

GW, I always tell others that it is no good claiming that you were right and had the right of way when you are sucking your food through a tube or are lying six feet under so I appreciate what you are saying without the need of your little verse.

Having slowed down earlier in anticipation of this dickhead, I then did purposely accelerate to get to him and call him all kinds of names. Of course he did not even look at me and if you notice in the video, he tried to pull to the right of the lane into the water so as to 'give me way' which indicates he was aware of what he had done.

The reason I started using a camera is to record these incidents and put them up on you tube with the driver's vehicle registration. Unfortunately I could not make out the first number, however when I checked the registration the only number that came up was DFZ545 which is registered to a 3 series BMW which leads to think this was either a stolen car or a vehicle with fraudulent plates put on specifically for the purpose of not being identifiable.

On another note and not wanting to sound overly judgemental, the side road that he came out from is an area well known for its crime and certain strata of society, similar to some of the areas in other cities in the UK. It is a hotbed of vehicle theft, scroates on dirt bikes or scooters with no helmets, registration, insurance or driving licence. The same with cars. So I am not surprised at the actions of the dickhead that pulled out.


Offline UK_Vstrom650

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2016, 21:40:07 »
Is that not a three lane road you're riding on? If so why is the car you're following/overtaking in the middle lane rather than the left?? All his fault!!!

Thanks for sharing ProfG and for all the comments above. Good reminder you don't know who is on the road and what they'll do. (I would have expected the red car to stay in the gap in the central reservation and pull out once the road was clear rather than pull out into the overtaking lane when there's approaching traffic. Though would have been anticipating it not stopping and prepared to take appropriate action like you).

Hope you reported suspicious car to the police.

ProfG

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2016, 22:03:21 »
You are correct in that the road is a three lane carriageway on the side I was. The first lane turns left a few hundred yards further up hence the traffic that wants to go straight on tends to stay in the middle lane. Immediately after the road becomes a single lane as the outer lane merges into the middle lane and there is a sharp single lane hair pin bend. Many drivers tend to stay in the outer lane from the beginning of the road driving at 30 mph which causes frustration and anger among other drivers and hence they tend to overtake using the middle lane (undertake).

That is why I am quite careful on that road as it is never safe to be overconfident. Unfortunately along with the points I mentioned, and due to its long stretch, it is a haven for car criminals (read so-called joyriders) and you get quite a few stolen burnt out cars.

Offline Angustoyou

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2016, 23:11:38 »
Pretty standard to use any available lane, due to the mentioned poor lane discipline and todays volume of traffic, and to be expected. Not many will wait for three clear lanes to pull out swiftly - me included if it is busy.  Not saying he is right or wrong, but his actions - as you predicted - are predictable.  Another reason I don't prescribe to the particulary Hello viz route is it makes you confident you'll be seen. I've always ridden as though no one will see me.  I always take extra care at a junction with traffic on it, and expect the stupid and apparently blind to be using them. I certainly don't overtake on them in a situation like that without expecting that sort of action.

 Not sure what mileage you expect out of videoing and reporting if no accident has been caused.  It's extremely doubtful even with a clear I'd that that he'd get a call from the law.  Chill out bloke - far closer calls than that don't really warrant more than a shake of the head, there's literaly nothing to be gained - Just move on and away from drivers like that as quickly as you can.

Certainly nothing to be gained in moving dangerously close behind the car in the middle lane, whilst placing your attention on the car you are currently undertaking to grab his attention. Bear in mind recent rain can often mean obscured side vision from a wet window too.

  Probably not a good idea to give the police a video showing undertaking and intimidation of another road user.

And what exactly does a poor driver have in common with somene who digs a road for a living? 

Playing devils advocate here - but you can see my point I hope?

Glad to hear apart from your blood pressure, no harm was caused!  :)

Offline UK_Vstrom650

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2016, 23:51:10 »
Was meaning if the car is running about on dodgy numberplates it should be reported so the police can check it out, rather than for pulling out (although there could be a driving with out due care and attention chat especially if they've been reported previously)

Offline Brockett

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2016, 10:15:12 »
Looks like an illegal turn. If not it should be.

greywolf's rhyme, or something like it, was often recited by my, long time dead and not much missed,  father, a man of zero sympathy. However, it remained with me as an essential survival tool.
This doesn't last forever, so do it while you can.

Offline Hugh Mungus

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2016, 11:10:56 »
Nothing regarding poor driving surprises me. I see it all day, everyday.

If I see anything (especially a car) waiting in the middle to turn onto the carriageway I fully expect them to do some stupid manoeuvre as nobody has the patience to wait for 2 minutes.

Offline benlyboy2003

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2016, 08:20:11 »
As a motorcyclist you will know that detecting speed of another motorcycle is difficult - the introduction of daytime running lights has not helped, loud exhaust will not help you in this situation - but what will help you is your anticipation and planning skills. The bloke was a cock, there is no denying it! My late father hit a motorcycle years ago when turning right at lights - broke the blokes leg, did he see the bike - yes! So why did he go? Because he did not expect the bike to be travelling at 80mph in a 30! Found not guilty in court..... did not make him feel any better about it though.....


.
Have fun doing it - On Road, Off Road - Just Do It!

Offline Barbel Mick

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2016, 10:12:15 »




 The vehicle that I overtook was doing 30 mph.

Why is the car in front doing 30mph?
Not enough video is shown to prove it, but from the short bit that is shown I'd say the speed limit is 30mph!!
It's not automatic NSL (national speed limit) because it's a dual carriageway. The street lights present make it 30mph unless otherwise indicated. In the piece of film shown there are no speed limit signs, that I can see, (and repeater signs would not be necessary in the circumstances)  however they may have been present earlier, (at the start of the dual carriageway) in which case the street lights will not be an indicator of the speed limit.

Just my observations from the film.

****************************************************************************
www.speedlimit.org.uk/speed_markings.html

This is a brief guide to the law and practice of speed limit signs and markings in the UK

Any road with regular street lighting has a default speed limit of 30 mph unless signs indicate otherwise. The entry to a 30 mph zone must be marked by a "30" sign on both sides of the road, but no repeater signs are permitted within the zone (on the grounds that they might be confusing if some roads had them and others didn't). "30" roundels on the road surface are however permitted, with a special dispensation.

In some circumstances, where a side road has a lower limit than the main road, only one speed limit sign for the lower limit is needed, on the left-hand side of the road, and no signs at all are needed for the higher limit if there are repeater signs on the main road indicating the limit within 100 yards of the junction.

Where there is no street lighting, the default limit is 60 mph for single-carriageway and 70 mph for dual carriageway roads. This is referred to as the "National Speed Limit" (NSL), and entry to these zones is marked by the familiar "derestriction" sign with a diagonal black stripe on a white background. Repeater signs are not normally used but are not specifically prohibited.

Any other limit requires roadside repeater signs at regular intervals prescribed by law. The mere fact that a road runs through an urban or rural area makes no difference to the speed limit - it is the presence or absence of street lighting. Thus a lit dual carriageway in a rural environment would have a 30 limit unless signs indicate otherwise, and the speed limit through the snooty Cheshire village of Prestbury, which still refuses to have street lighting, would be 60 in the absence of 30 signs and repeaters.
Mick

Retired Breakfast Tester and semi professional tumbler.

ProfG

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2016, 11:41:48 »
Why is the car in front doing 30mph?
Not enough video is shown to prove it, but from the short bit that is shown I'd say the speed limit is 30mph!!

The speed limit IS 50 mph. I go on that road on a daily basis. If you are indicating that I am being less than honest in my post I shall be glad to put the whole video up and you WILL SEE the speed sign clearly showing 50.

As to why the fellow was doing 30, well for the same reason that people do 55 in the middle lane of a motorway. There is no minimum speed limit in the UK as I am sure you are aware so theoretically they can do whatever speed they want as long as it is not over the speed limit.

Thank you for the post explaining speed limit signs etc. Like I mentioned before in my earlier post, as an IAM Observer who observes, advises and explains safe riding techniques and how to build up riding skills based road conditions (which includes potential hazards, speed signs) and safe riding speeds in various conditions, including reaction times and braking distances, I would be familiar with what you have posted and I do put it in practice.

Anyway, this is my last post on this subject and I shall not respond to what anyone else thinks. I was there, saw it, experienced it, filmed it and commented on it. I don't want this to get into a discussion that would cause the thread to be locked.

ProfG

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2016, 13:56:22 »
His side of the road from the top of the road. Please note the speed limit

The junction he came out of. Please note his line of vision and whether there are any obstructions blocking his vision

My side of the road immediately exiting a roundabout and entering the dual carriageway. Please note the clear 50mph signs on the left and on the central reservation

The junction to the right from which he exited onto the dual carriageway. Note the gap in the middle which he did not bother to wait in until the traffic had passed

A closer image of the gap


My side of the road where the left lane turns left and the outside lane merges into the middle lane to create a single lane at the hair pin bend. Here the speed limit changes to 30 mph immediately after the junction which brings us to the top of the road and link 1 on his side of the road which indicates 50mph going into the dual carriageway

I hope the above has made it clear regardless of another driver doing 30 or street lighting.

Offline Hugh Mungus

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2016, 16:19:20 »
It's all quite clear to me.

The car driver either did not look or look properly. Maybe his vision was impaired by some sort of blind spot.
Maybe he saw you and just pulled out anyway.

Regardless of speed limits and the rights/wrongs of the situation you took evasive action, you survived. Whether this was down to training or just instinct I suppose only you will know.
You have the video evidence and I can see it was a harsh move on the car drivers behalf. I frequently shout at stupid drivers as it helps me get rid of any aggression that may otherwise lurk at the next set of traffic lights etc. However, if the other driver sees this reaction it may/may not escalate the situation and as a biker you could come off worse.

If you don't want a discussion that may invite criticism then don't start the discussion although it is interesting to read other peoples comments/assumptions/theories.

Offline kwackboy

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2016, 16:30:47 »
Life's too short to even bother giving this bad driver wasted breath , your riding experience kept you upright and safe that's all that matters. 

 
Chief trouble maker 🙂

Offline UK_Vstrom650

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2016, 18:36:49 »
Hugo's point about things escalating is a good one. A few years ago I had a prat wanting to 'have a fight' with me because I'd filtered passed him at a red light. When they went green he tried force me towards a pedestrian crossing barrier. At the next set of lights about 300 yards up the road which turn red just as you reach them, he was shouting abuse at me and saying 'pull over there, we'll have a fight'. He was setting a good example to his c.10yr old son in the car with him. Needless to say I didn't take him up on the kind offer.


Offline Hugo Magnus

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2016, 19:55:35 »
No I can't take the credit for that. That was Hugh Mungus :grin:
The interruptions ARE the journey  (Ted Simon)



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Offline UK_Vstrom650

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Re: A dickhead through and through
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2016, 21:49:32 »
(Damn this auto-correct on my phone  :shy:)