20 is plenty in Wales

[endintears]

One of my pet theories is that a significant number of Give Way signs at T junctions should be replaced by Stop signs.
It would (IMHO) only cause a marginal reduction to overall traffic flow for a significant improvement in safety [#1&#2].
Particularly motorcyclists.

[The Doctor 46]

I agree with the above 100%. If people approached a Give Way with the intention of stopping unless they can see it's clear to go instead of the intention of going unless they manage to see a bike (or car) with the slightest glance whilst not slowing enough. 

[pichulec]

+ for 2x above. I stop on give a way signs anyway, when aproaching a junctions with give away signs for other drivers than me I also slow down, to many morons not looking.

[Joe Rocket]

I agree too but I'd reinforce Doc's point.  A STOP is no movement but most people roll anyway irrespective of their observations. 

[UK_Vstrom650]

I'm sure I read Spain has introduced cameras at Stop signs to fine folks who don't stop. Am sure if that proves to improve safety generate money, it'll be introduced everywhere

[Sea-Strom]

Fast bikes can be safer than slower ones - T junctions, overtakes, whatever. You don't have to use the power but when needed...... gets you out of trouble. Generally, smaller engine machines require a more cautious approach. We are talking experience here - not newbies and certainly not clowns! Fast, defensive riding on 1000cc and up is where a lot of bikers spend their latter years. It's probably why police riders are supplied with 'big' bikes. Things like the 20 limit might help some  but interfering with road dynamics to overcautious levels can actually cause more issues.
 I've no problem with  careful road users but unhelpful changes by politicians  . 

20 is plenty.....

On another front, I see the petition objecting to the new 20 mph restrictions is approaching 400k votes!  That's a huge section of affected Welsh licence holders who think it's wrong.

[UK_Vstrom650]

I'd read something saying that a lot of the signatures on the petition were from people outside of Wales, and even outside the UK... Even 400k won't change the outcome even if they were all from Wales.

[Brockett]

A ride around Chelmsford today shows that most drivers can't obey the 30 mph limit. In the event that 20 limits are imposed there, some folks heads will explode with anger. Lets be honest, deep down, we are all a little bit like Mr Toad ( of Toad Hall - if you're familiar with the story).

[Sea-Strom]

I suspect far more people worry about points on their licence than public safety. Slow down for a speed camera for instance then speed up after it is out of sight maybe?
 

[nigel s]

I think it was Mark Williams (Bike mag) in the 80s who made a good case for dangerous driving being the only driving penalty,getting rid of speed limits.
My take on the lowering of speed limits is that it is a tacit admission by "the man" that driving/riding standards have dropped to the point they had to be seen to do something and changing limits was easiest.
This next bit will NOT be popular but .............a 10 year licence and retest would sort a lot of problems.

[2112]

I would fully support a ten year re-test, standards have dipped so much it's a joke. This would help to weed out the blind, incabable, out-of-date and plain simple dangerous.

And while you're at it change marriage licences to 10 years too...

[Brockett]

What? walk your wife around a series of traffic cones and then stop suddenly ( and not outside a shop)

[Hugo Magnus]

".a 10 year licence and retest would sort a lot of problems."


Yes, but some of us might struggle with that

[Sea-Strom]

Retest won't happen. Waste of time and money! Why? Because those who passed their test and then drive/ride like idiots will do the same. Behave for an hour, get your new licence and then back to old ways. As for skills deteriorating over time - mid life crisis 40 something undertook me this morning within a hair's breadth doing 50 in a 20 zone - hopefully he will have calmed down by the time he retires and start riding sensibly! Not a lot you can do to stop dickheads - they box clever and care about nobody but themselves. The over 70's need to reapply every 3 years.  You go to the optician, get new glasses and that is it. As for the marriage licence - we celebrate our golden wedding next year and I've no complaints

[Hugo Magnus]

We've got three years to go. Do we get a telegram from the king if we make it?

[Upt North]

Well this thread grew since I last looked at it.......
A couple of things that I think are worthy of note.
1. How can it be undemocratic if the Welsh voted these politicians in? You got what you voted for, it's democratic. You might not like it but the Welsh put these esteemed politicians in power. No?
Obviously you'll be able to vote for someone else next time around, or not.
2. The speed limit of 20 mph is dangerous? Of course it isn't dangerous, how can a limit be dangerous, it's folks driving that may or may not be dangerous. Is it a good idea to have 20 mph limits, only time will tell? But dangerous, no.
3. The poll, of course there's a gazillion signatures, it's social media driven frenzy and nonsense, but it'll fizzle out next week when their attention is distracted by Strictly. Cha cha cha. I would think the strong objectors have found ways to vote numerous times. Poll? Meh.
Upt.

[Upt North]

Sea Strom.
Couldn't disagree more.
"Fast" bikes are not safer. They don't get you out of trouble.
If you've got into trouble in the first place, you need to ask yourself why. I presume you were riding the "faster" bike before the trouble started.
Just my view and ride what suits you, but faster ain't safer. It's just faster.
Upt.

[nigel s]

Just my view and ride what suits you, but faster ain't safer. It's just faster.
Upt.

Plod talk,
So faster is a safe as slow?

[Upt North]

Nigel,
Not sure I follow your response, but speed is as safe as the conditions dictate.
Is it dangerous to ride at 3 figures on an isolated motorway with no traffic to worry about on a well maintained motorcycle, probably not if the rider is alert and able to react at high speed.
Is it dangerous to ride at 30 mph in a 20 mph area which was previously a 30, probably not if conditions allow.
Although I still can't see how riding a fast motorcycle makes any of this safer or not.
I don't know what plod has got to do with it, but Police drivers/rides are trained to ride as fast as is safe when attending emergency incidents. I wouldn't describe all Police vehicles as fast, in fact far from it, but being in a faster vehicle would not make that response safer. Would it?
Upt.

[Sea-Strom]

Fast bikes are faster than slow bikes. The difference is, a slow bike is always slow but a fast bike can be fast or slow! On my 3 V-Strom 650's (what great bikes they were) over 10 years riding on the same stretch of road, I would hang back from overtaking sometimes not wanting to put my self in danger. On the 1050 I have more options. Like many bikers (not all) we ride because we have a bit of a daring streak - we like the small rushes of adrenaline. Bikers who find that concept uncomfortable fit more into the cautious/defensive mould. I have a few friends like that and respect them fully. I have other friends who still like to put a smile on their face. Now a faster bike gives them more options. If you can't agree with that then you are probably riding a machine with the correct power capabilities for your style of riding. I've been riding over 50 years and still like to move it from time to time. Police riders sometimes have to do the same - I have the choice. If I really feel like blowing away the cobwebs I probably would not take the Suzuki but prefer the Kawasaki with it's 2.5 secs 0-60 mph and 1400cc. I can and often do ride that motorcycle around town at 20 or 30 mph. However on a very fast road when my lane is clogged, I find it much safer to overtake knowing I will get round in time. There are loony riders who do this to silly extremes - that's up to them but not me. So for me, as I often prefer not to stay behind queues of traffic, it is safer if I am going to pull out anyway to have more power than less. This forum which possibly has a more sober riding dynamic due to the type of more practical bike, may be the wrong place for me to find like minded riders. I think I have and anyone else has to be mindful of being too 'holier than thou'. A young buck came up beside me a while back on his Gixxer thou and nodded indicating he wanted to race me away from the lights. I let him go partly because we were in a thirty limit, partly because of my clean licence and anyway, I knew my bike can reach 100 in 1st gear very quickly and did not have anything to prove! My Harley is slower than both my other 2 bikes but I ride that for the joy of an open faced helmet and kicked out feet. I love my motorcycling and always will. I ride bikes for different reasons - the DL is mainly for nipping/filtering through traffic to the supermarket.

Back to the topic. Just like some votes on the petition are coming from those not even living with 20 limits everywhere nearby, so are some opinions on how safe it is are coming from there too! Come and see the tailgating, frustrated barmy overtakes, painted out signposts, cocked up timetables and delayed journeys causing mayhem in Wales at the moment before you judge fully. I have never voted in my entire life but may put a cross down to oust the loonies in power at the moment, for the first time, in my mid seventies, at the next election!