Suzuki V-Strom (VStrom) Owners Club DL250, DL650, DL1000 & DL1050
Oily Rag - Dedicated to Pat, Greywolf. 26/06/45 - 04/06/18 => Clothing => Topic started by: Oldleathers on July 21, 2023, 07:37:44
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I had yet another dick head pull out on me yesterday I don't know why he didn't see me I have day time running lights plus one spot light, (Tracer 9 in red). I was in a rural back ground. Any thoughts on High Vision vests, belts, anybody wear them, My HJC helmet has some High vision stickers on it. convert me!!
Cheers
Oldleathers
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Site keeps changing Hello (high) vis to hello vis, bit of a glitch fat rat.
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IMO, FWIW, if they don't see you, then they won't, regardless of what you wear.
Neilm posted another thread about driving standards, it's something we all must experience every time we ride.
Sorry, I won't be trying to convince you to turn yellow, it'll make no soddin difference.
Upt.
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Personally I think High vis and running lights etc has very little effect on other road users. For a few it will help them spot us, but it seems to me most of the near misses I've had are because people aren't looking and a growing number who I'm convinced have seen me, pull out anyway, they think they're are more important than me and its up to me to deal with it.
For me the only answer is defensive riding/awareness.
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I wear my cloak of invisibility.
I assume that no-one can see me, and ride accordingly.
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I did a rider training course in the 70s (Rac/Acu) and a police rider said just presume everyone is out to kill you!!!
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There has been a lot of research into SMIDSYs and the conclusion is that drivers do see you but their brain de-prioritises you if they see something more threatening afterwards, the classic case being you coming one way a medium distance away and a truck the other way but closer. The human brain sees the bike and lists it as not a threat, it then sees the truck and lists it as a major threat so deals with the truck and ignores the bike, once the truck has passed by, the driver has forgotten about the bike and so pulls out.
Hi-Viz clothing will get you seen by those who otherwise would have missed you completely but it won't help the ones who see you but then ignore you. I have read some stuff suggesting that twin headlights and aux lights do help as they (a) make you look bigger and therefore more of a threat and (b) 2 points of light means the driver can more accurately triangulate your distance and how fast you're approaching.
It's all very interesting and probably does make a difference but it won't stop them all so defensive riding and looking for solid eye contact as you approach side turnings is still your best bet.
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Over the years I've had more drivers pull out on me when I've been driving my car or the works van (granted I've done more miles in those than bikes though) but in my opinion drivers are drivers & I'm including so called professional drivers in this, those who have taken the extra tests/exams to drive certain vehicles, the standards of driving have gone down!
I think people are taught to pass a test now, not how to drive a vehicle.
Try & be the best rider you can, be observant, slow down & expect people not to see you.
I don't have H I VIZ but I do have running lights.
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Looking but not seeing is my take on the subject. Make yourself as conspicuous as possible by road positioning, additional lighting and eye visibility clothing and as Rixington mentions eye contact.
Failing all that plan either your escape route and your braking distance. Cornering ABS is rather good in letting you brake as hard as you like without the front end washing out.
On our mission the other day Rusty (I think) mentioned a documentary about a motorcycle Paramedic who was knocked off with his blues and two's on, I've heard the same from bike officers when I did the Bikesafe courses.
In short assume they haven't seen you.
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I remember a piece in bike magazine from years ago about an MI5 officer who used a black cbr600 to follow suspects. When in a high speed pursuit he would turn off his lights because it was safer to negotiate the traffic as if they didn't know you were there and treat all as a danger.
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White Helmet.
Headlight/DRLs turned on and ride defensively.
I personally don't always wear High Vis but it won't make you any less visible.
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Last week on the way to work a bloke in a van pulled out on an ambulance with it's blues on.
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Bright yellow, covered in blue lights and a siren yet they still don't see you!
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Five or so years ago, on a rideout with some Strommers, I was very surprised to see a mid pack rider's high-vi jacket when I was IRO 400 yards behind. Now when I have to ride in rain or reduced visibility conditions I break out the "lime" hi vi rain jacket. It doesn't keep me safe but probably keeps me safer.
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If they can't see a sodding great big ambulance, with blues and two's, I rest my case. I'm not going to bore anyone with the details but after riding and driving emergency vehicles for 30 plus years you realise you can't change stupid.
Ride safe and if you're in doubt about your own abilities get the best training out there.
Upt.
FWIW.
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Re: the ambulance pic, it might have been barrelling through a red light at 50 mph, in which case a little unfair to say the car driver didn't see him.
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Stupid is not an absolute condition. The degrees of stupid vary from person to person and then there is eyesight... Mine is not as good as it was. I don't like and I try to avoid driving is the dark. I also have a degree of stupid and Hi Vis clothing always catches my attention in poor lighting conditions. Although Hi Vis won't always save me I am sure sometime it might and I need all the luck I can get. And as Rusty says who knows what was going on before that picture was taken? In 2001 I went through a green light and was struck by a fire engine that ran the light with no blues or twos ( a blind bend before the junction which is why it had traffic lights) I was in a Rover. The right hand front wheel came up through the bonnet and the engine exited over the left side. The rescue crew in the next unit cut me out of it.
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There's a Canadian YouTube channel called Fort Nine , he has an excellent video on this subject. He's a little quirky and maybe not for all, but is always very informative.
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Great replies thanks. So I bought a new Weise jacket (any excuse ) half price from Fowlers with a hint of High Vis. Posted two pics with the High vis and my old Weise black jacket. what's the verdict folks?
Cheers Oldleathers.
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The green is definitely more noticeable, probably even more so in lower light conditions.
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You have addressed the the area from the waist up. However, to me from the attached pix, the bottom half of both of the rider and the bike does nothing to attract attention. The fact that this section is too dark and would blend in / fade into the road surface under low light conditions.
I would suggest consider in adding a set of LEDs / spots / driving lights, mounted roughly at foot peg level, to make the lower section of the bike to stand out more. Even neon gaiters on the front forks may be an option.
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Oldleathers.
My views haven't changed but if it gives you more confidence to ride, why not. It'll be interesting if you report back at the end of summer with any observations you may have on the visibility it has or hasn't provided.
Whether or not we can see you on a photograph is not really that relevant to riding on a road. But that's just my two'penneth.
Upt.
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The jacket helps there's no doubt about that.
Don't take this the wrong way Oldleathers but the worse thing for your viability is your bike. Low and single main light and no headlights where they should be but dim running lights. Yamaha got it the wrong way round.
I had a tracer behind me last week in my car, hard to see, not blinding at all like his mates Fz1 or vfr .
I'd run both beams on or get aftermarket lights.
Don't be offended as a tracer9 is a bike I'm very interested in.
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oldleathers
Wear what you want,ride what you want ,ride how you want.
But even if you end up lit up like a dayglo xmas tree don't get complacent.They MAY still not see you.
Touching all the wood around me as I type this,even thinking about this subject gives me the willies.
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Yes indeed Porter the day time running lights are quite dim, the other light that's on is the dipped beam and the one that's not on is the main beam. There's a bloke on youtube who rides with his main beam on but has adjusted it down because he doesn't ride at night, not something I would personally do.
At the end of the day Mr Dick Head who pulled out on me annoyed me more than anything as I've always been a defensive rider but not boringly slow.
Here on the llyn Peninsula it's silly season the start of the six weeks holiday and Mr Dick Head had the must have roof box on his car a sure sign anything can happen. A week Saturday the Eisteddfod starts for a week so I'm hanging up the oldleathers for a week... unless I go with nigel's idea of a Christmas tree on the front ha ha.
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I have often thought about replacing the flash/horn button with a rocket launcher arming switch.
WHOOSH.......KEBANG! ........ and I ride serenely under the falling wreckage onto the next bend.
Or is that just me...........
Ho Hum
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Now we're talking...
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I'm thinking Tom Cruise ,mission impossible.
But taller.
And a bit less of the scientology/teeth.
Ho Hum
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I agree with Barbel Mick that people are taught to pass a test, not to drive. Both my daughters have done just that. Can't drive, don't even really have proper control of the peddles yet can drive legally. All their friends refuse to reverse out of our drive which could be 2 way it's so wide. Scares the hell out of me.
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stevewestern
That would have me hiding their keys with worry ......brrrr hate even to think of that.
Have you tried taking them out on the bike,a few wheelies and the odd stoppy combined with a cheeky smidsy would enlighten them maybe.
Or scare the shit out of them so they never drive again.
Sorry .........but everyone has to go through the process of gaining experience,it's just that watching it can be agony.
At least driving the odds are in their favour.
Imagine if they had a 250 to learn the road on.
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A lot of my friends all park facing into a space, I always reverse in (even in the supermarket). I always reverse into my drive too.
I'm a very nervous passenger in a car so normally entertain myself with my phone so I don't watch, but absolutely fine driving or riding... explain that one!
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Wait till you get the joy of having a 6 foot four 95kilo nervous pillion who doesn't like your line and shifts it over a foot.
Who the f@ck would do that?
Ho Hum
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I almost always reverse into a parking space. I was in the recce platoon in my battalion for almost four years and always reversed my Landrover in because I never knew how fast I may need to drive it out. Also, when I was young my dad told me, half joking, when I start driving always revers into a parking space as you don't know how drunk you may be when you drive out. How times have changed, thank god. :)
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High vis does increase the chance of being seen, marginally, as do running lights. If you want to gain someone's attention when you approach a junction to the left or right, you can consider mild swerving/jinking so the movement of your lights gets the attention of the driver. As others have said, does all of this really help? One major factor to the problem is the sequard effect, whereby, people look, but don't see - this is one of the main causes why the vast majority of accidents occur within 5 miles of the person's home. The brain takes in images like a camera, and the quicker you scan, the bigger the blanks. The memorised images of the location you're familiar with will fill in the blanks. Anything within those blanks (bicycle, motorcycle, car etc) is not registered. The solution is to improve one's standard of riding.
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I was taught similar by my riding instructor, when approaching junctions etc, weave the bike in and out slightly within your lane. Apparently this vastly increases your chances of being registered by the person waiting at the junction.
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Best bang for buck Gortex, yeah they're used but mine was flawless. Never had a drop of rain or wind get through.
If its good enough for professional riders like The Police, then it's good enough for me.
Unfortunately lost it on my last house move.
And only any good if you don't mind looking like a copper.
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How the hell can you lose something so highly visible?
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Tests have shown that high visibility motorcycle clothing and can be looked at but never seen.
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Just ask Brockett
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Hi viz jackets and vests are OK for the building site or warehouse. No self respecting biker should ever wear one especially as they probably don't help idiots in cars, vans and lorries to spot you especially when they are messing with their mobile phones. You are better just riding as if all other road users are out to kill you. As for those so called bikers that wear Dayglo 'Polite' jackets, well they are in a different class of nutter. I won't even acknowledge those idiots.
(https://I.imgur.com/NFvJF5P.jpg)
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I hope some sensible person came along and took their motorcycle away. I hate the Polite vest more than anything. Its design mimics the fonts and banding used by the Police - a deliberate attempt to imitate the fuzz.
Having led group ride-outs in the past, I make it clear that anyone wearing this attire is not welcome.
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I have said it before, and will say it again.
Everyone has the right to wear what they like on a bike.Legality allowing.
Equally ....I have the right to severely take the piss out of them. :whistle:
Ho Hum
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I don't care what anyone wears on their bike as long as they are not telling me what to wear on mine.
Drivers pull out in front of bikes in my experience because they don't see us a threat and they aren't looking for us anyway.
With people on their phones nowadays texting and even watching videos whilst trying to steer I don't think they are too worried about looking out for bikes.
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It's not just watching videos that distracts some drivers :shock:
https://road.cc/content/news/cyclist-catches-driver-spanking-monkey-304995
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What the very F*CK?
Ho Hum
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Let's face it UK driving standards vary from the sublime to the completely ridiculous,with that in mind and being unable to tell the idiots from the good drivers,I treat all drivers,and one or two motorcyclists too BTW,as potential killers.
I wear an Oxford hiviz vest and either a hiviz or white helmet,DLRs,main beam on motorways especially with a low sun behind me.
I suffer no illusions that they'll make me anymore visible to the ones that don't see me,but should I get wiped out,I or my N of K will have a strong case against the perpetrator.