Suzuki V-Strom (VStrom) Owners Club DL250, DL650, DL1000 & DL1050
V-Strom specific discussion => V-Strom specific discussion => The Notice Board => Topic started by: Fatbelly on February 02, 2013, 18:11:00
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Design Fault on Glee?
I have been putting off this report until everything is certain and fixed. But now, all Glee owners should be aware of a fault on my Glee. It is possible that my Glee was not assembled correctly but the Suzuki mechanics who are repairing it under warranty have described the problem as “A design Fault” and are expecting it to occur on other Glees.
THE FAULT
Where the wiring loom is routed under the rear of the tank at the left side, just in front of the battery, fusebox etc., the wires pass over a slighty sharp corner of the frame and have been chafing against it. This has resulted in five small wires having the insulation rubbed off at the underside until they are bare and shorting out. (this happened at about 13,000 miles)
THE SOLUTION
Suzuki has agreed to replace the entire wiring loom (and battery in this case). The dealer has already decided to add a small plastic guard on the sharp corner at the PDI of any new Glees to prevent the chafing from happening – I don’t know if there are any plans to do this at any other dealers or to any other Glees which are already in service. Suzuki took a bloody long time to supply the new loom, it is being fitted today.
THE SYMPTOMS
I will describe the symptoms my Glee suffered, but it occurs to me that the symptoms could be completely different depending on which wires short out and to where they short out.
My problem first occurred when I washed the bike, took it for a five minute “blow dry” ride then put it away. I went back the next morning and it’s battery was completely dead – not just a little bit flat – completely dead. I took the battery out and fully recharged it, during this time the faulty part had obviously dried out and the bike started but misfired and showed an FI for the oil pressure sensor. The dealer collected it to repair under warranty.
The dealer checked all the connector blocks and sprayed all the connectors, but by this time the bike was running perfectly so they returned it to me.
About a week later I took the bike out and it immediately started to rain heavily, within a few hundred yards of riding in the rain the Glee started to misfire really badly and I just managed to ride it home and put it away again. Next morning a completely dead battery once more.
The dealer then started tearing the thing down to find the fault and eventually discovered the bared wires. To see them you have to take the little black side panel off the left side, put your head on the footpeg and look up with a torch.
THE GOOD NEWS
The fault is very easily and cheaply prevented by protecting the wires where they run over the edge of the frame. A little bit of tape or plastic or maybe a well placed wire tie will sort it out.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8097/8438941524_d2a6d12b97.jpg)
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I don't have a Glee , but good post :thumb: . Could save some folk a lot of time and trouble .
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Thanks for the post, will be taking a look tomorrow. glad you got it sorted. :thumb:
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There was a similar problem, I believe in 2004 and 2005, when factory assemblers mis-routed the harness. I've had the cover off before and don't remember a problem but I'll look again. A bit of plastic conduit may be called for. Thanks for posting the information.
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:text-goodpost:
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Thanks for the heads up will check mine this week :ty:
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Quality info, thank you :ty:
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I wonder if this has anything to do with the warranty letters Suzuki has been posting out...?? (got one today)
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Many thanks for posting this in such detail.. I'm having my tank up before it's back on the road to fit a Scottoiler, I'll check and prevent at the same time..
This is exactly why we join owners forums.. :)
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Had a look / feel on my bike and there seems to be clearance between the loom and the frame :)
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Whoa... great post! Sorry to hear you had all that hassle, but thanks for letting the rest of us know so we can sort it out. Will check mine out tomorrow... thanks!
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:handgestures-thumbup: :text-goodpost:
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:thumb: Thanks for the warning. I intend to have a look at mine this weekend and see about applying some shielding to the wiring
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Hello Fatbelly, I have posted some close up pictures from my own bike because I haven't been able to find where the wiring loom may be rubbing. Can you direct me to where the problem is using my pictures below? Thank you!
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/92914369@N04/8445032917/in/photostream)
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/92914369@N04/8445032997/in/photostream)
If they don't show on the page, they are on Flickr here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92914369@N ... hotostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92914369@N04/8445032917/in/photostream)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92914369@N ... hotostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92914369@N04/8445032997/in/photostream)
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I still don't have mine back yet, it should be ready tomorrow but I will be at work all week so it will probably be Saturday before I see it again. It's snowing heavily here right now, too.
I don't want to go by memory and get it wrong. When I get it back I will take some pictures. I will also notice if it has been routed in a different way.
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:ty:
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I asked the dealer to send me the pics they took for the warrantly claim. Hope this is helpful - you can see what a mess it is.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8359/8447075641_60583cc888_z.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8222/8448164198_8f21f1e1a2_z.jpg)
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That's nasty..
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farrrrk. :shock: Doesn't look too far from that burnt out wee being flogged on ebay
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That's a different place from where I expected. It appears the sand cast aluminum frame acted like a file rather than a steel frame upright acting like a knife on the mis-routed looms from years ago.
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Shit That's bad. How many miles have you done for that to occur. I think I will be in the garage tonight looking for this. What have they done so it doesn't happen again.
Good to know you got it sorted.
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I checked the wiring harness wiring of the Glee compared to the Wee. The wiring in that area is identical. The harness is not subject to any movement there. I would conclude this is a very unusual situation as such an incident in that area has never, to my knowledge, been previously reported on a Wee. It's possible a crimped connection in that area was not done well and the marginal connection created enough heat to melt through the insulation and cause other wires to contact the frame. I would say on closer inspection it looks like heat damage rather than abrasion.
I would put this down as a rare occurrence. I have seen wiring harnesses that had similar damage in other areas due to water, especially salt water, cause corrosion of crimped wires. Worriers can get out the ACF-50 to protect wiring against corrosion.
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This occurred at about 13,000 miles. The whole loom is being replaced, as is the battery,and the engine oil (due to the misfire, they say), the paint on the frame will be retouched. The dealer also plans to fit some protection to prevent a recurrence. Should be good as new. With luck this will be a one off and won't happen to anyone else.
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where the wiring loom has been rubbing was there not a problem with the weld or a burr of some sort, took the side panel off to get a better look at mine and the loom is only just missing that section of frame, the weld and the frame appear to be smooth. What has the dealer done differently for you when he has fitted the new one. :shrug:
:ty:
Edit: thank just seen your post while doing this. Glad you have got it all sorted... :thumb:
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Hello Fatbelly, thank you for posting the pictures. I can see clearly now where the problem was. I take Greywolf's point that situation may have been due to a marginal connection causing heat damage. When I inspected my wiring loom this evening it was rock solid and very difficult to move away from the frame cross member it was resting on. I looked closely at the tape binding the loom and there may have been the early stages of wear but it was difficult to tell, and the bike is still low mileage. However, because I am risk averse I decided to do some remedial work. Too late for you I know but others may want to consider this.
1st Pic, I got hold of a soft rubber bicycle handlebar grip and split it down the middle with a craft knife.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8518/8447711685_ec6b77c1de_m.jpg)
2nd Pic, I removed the two bolts and two pop-out panel connectors from the black side panel and prised it away from the bike.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8469/8447698931_57468638b5_m.jpg)
3rd Pic, I fed the flattened handlebar grip from underneath the bike pushing it forward up and over the offending cross member and underneath the wiring loom. I then cable tied it at the forward position, in front of the fuel tank rear support.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8049/8448801634_86d0a8c452_m.jpg)
4th Pic, working under the bike again I cable tied the rear of the handlebar grip making sure I didn't tie anything else to the loom.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8330/8447701627_32f97610d5_m.jpg)
5th Pic, I trimmed the cable ties and put the side cover fastenings back. This is what the installation looks like from underneath when all is back together again.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8236/8447708295_9cba2e0a34_m.jpg)
If I get a problem now at least I should have eliminated the loom being chafed by the frame.
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looks good, still got my old grips I removed when I fitted the heated grips, will probably have a go at the weekend. :thumb:
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not Sunday old chap,,,, :auto-dirtbike: :auto-dirtbike: :auto-dirtbike:
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Good job, Stromboy, that should do the trick. It seems that some have less clearance than others. I'm glad it seems this is not a universal problem.
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They should all rest on the frame. Really though, after checking mine and an earlier model, I don't see abrasion being a problem. There is no movement to wear away anything and all Stroms have the harness resting on the frame. I have seen other cases of a crimp joint in the area going bad from water entry and melting insulation. I'll bet that's what happened in this case and the heat melted insulation allowed wires to contact the frame and short out. The OP even mentioned riding in the rain when it happened and salt may have also been involved. I'll bet the mechanics jumped to a conclusion about abrasion and that really was not the cause.
http://www.stromtrooper.com/v-strom-ser ... -wire.html (http://www.stromtrooper.com/v-strom-service-maintenance-questions-discussions/75186-another-2005-650-corroded-injector-wire.html) shows such a problem that did not get as bad and the article refers to another instance I remember but couldn't find. The reference to a 2005 problem was a wire abrasion problem, not a failed crimp problem and was much further back in the harness.
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Mmmmm the occasional rough running symptoms that cure themselves sound a lot like my problem, combined with the injector errors I've been getting for the past couple of years a guess a stripdown session is due at Easter...
Oh and regarding dodgy crimps there is one in the same place on the right side - not sure what it does but it's a think orange wire and is always live. It's similarly vulnerable to water but seemed tight enough on my bike. I know it's always live as I stuck a pin in it... and won't be doing that again.....
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Sticking a pin in something to find out if it's alive is a time Honoured method.
Shouldn't that be honoured?
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It's a bloomin' painful method....burned the tip of my finger off.... :limp:
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Greywolf's Causality Theory (sounds a bit like Enstein's Theory of Relativity) may well be correct. Each time the symptoms appeared the bike had just had a thorough soaking and the first time it ran OK after it dried out. It's entirely possible that it melted the insulation and caused the short, rather than rubbed the insulation and shorted causing the heat.
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... I know it's always live as I stuck a pin in it... and won't be doing that again.....
lol
That one made me laugh out loud. Nice one Strommer.
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Excellent post!
I'll have a look at this later on...
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Aha! I see the Americanism filter is now handling h*o*n*o*r*e*d.
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GW, you need to get back to the fold, the parent pack that is. All can be forgiven for those who repent :angelic-yellow:
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I thought Lend-Lease and VIII Bomber Command evened the score.
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Almost - but you lads then went on to rebuild Germany all brand-new, while we had to compete with them economically using crumbling victorian-period factories and machinery and dilapidated infrastructure...Why Oh Why did we bother even winning??
Oh yes...that thing...
Freedom (of a sort!)
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I've long maintained the best way to uplift a country is to lose a war to the USA. See "The Mouse that Roared".
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The mouse that roared, now that was a fine film :) PU was excellent especially his salute lol
But still, repent, repent, repent I say :old:
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An interesting little epilogue to this story....
When Suzuki agreed to replace the wiring loom on my bike they took two weeks to actually get one to Edinburgh. I called to try to speed them up and on the second call I lost my co0l slightly, pointing out firmly that I could have walked to their spares depot in Germany faster, etc, etc.
About a week after I got my bike back I received a letter from Suzuki GB apologising for the delay and giving me a "goodwill gesture" of £100 credit towards my next scheduled service.
It seems they do care after all! It doesn't make it all better but it has certainly made me feel a little more kindly towards Suzuki.
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Thank you Fatbelly, I will check on my V strom to avoid any future problem. I have a question that might sound strange, but when one says Glee we refer to the DL2 V strom 2012 model?
bestregards
Jacques
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Absolutley correct, it is a combination of the Gladius engine and wee so GL and ee = Glee.
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Plus my Glee makes me smile even more than my old Wee did. :)
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Here's another Glee water related failure post. http://www.stromtrooper.com/DL650-2012/ ... -wash.html (http://www.stromtrooper.com/DL650-2012/89929-blown-main-fuse-after-wash.html)
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Time to stop washing the bike I reckon :rain:
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Had the same problem. Mine would cut out then start again after it cooled down or I guess, after the wire retracted from the frame. Replaced wire loom under warranty but took them a while to find it and order in a new loom.
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:text-goodpost:
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I checked mine and it was OK but did the rubber mod on it anyway ....however I did notice "the coolant rubber pipe" ... WAS ...rubbing against the frame near the same spot so covered that to stop the rubbing ..worth checking while your at it ....
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And another wiring failure post. http://www.stromtrooper.com/DL650-2012/ ... ost1209161 (http://www.stromtrooper.com/DL650-2012/107841-multiple-fi-codes.html#post1209161)
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Mmmm.. How easy is it to get the this harness/frame point? A stitch in time and all that..
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It's very easy to get a piece of plastic between where the harness lays on the frame cross member. It's not so easy to water/corrosion proof the connections inside the harness. I just stuck a piece of 2"x4" piece of ABS plastic between the frame and the wiring harness, then put a bead of silicone seal between frame and plastic. It took less than 5 minutes.
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Can you get to it without removing the tank?
It causes some trouble doesn't it, I wonder if Suzuki will issue a recall if it becomes more common?
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There is no need to remove anything if you just want to put a piece of plastic between the wiring loom and the frame. BTW, all years have the wiring sitting on the frame in the same place.
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OK. Thanks for the info GW..
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Is it worth checking a 2013 brand new bike or not?
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A brand new bike won't show anything. If you are concerned, glue a piece of plastic between the loom and frame and forget about it.
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Oh right, wondered if Suzuki had done something about it on the new bikes, will take a look at mine when it arrives :)
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Can't imagine Suzuki will do anything about this. I have a length of bicycle inner tube between my loom and the frame as a result of this thread, I've forgotten about it.
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I just took my bike back to the dealers and they replaced it with a brand new bike. I can't understand what the problem is? lol :thumb:
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I did the same as stromboy today. I didn't have a grip so I used something less heavy duty but better than nothing, a bit of inner tube.
Thanks to the OP and thanks for stromboy for coming up with a solution. I found it quite fiddly to do especially as I struggled to remove the plastics and had them semi hanging and in the way.
Here is my effort.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/09/atedubup.jpg)
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I've just fallen victim to this problem too. I should have heeded the advice. Bike is currently at the dealer and hopefully they can get a warranty claim sorted. I'm not having much luck.
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The problem seems to strike UK riders out of proportion to other locations. It reinforces my opinion the problem is with salt water corroding the wiring harness more than a problem with wearing through the harness.
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Yep, the advantages of a temperate climate do not come without costs. Although the climate in Japan is very similar to ours.....
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I did the same as stromboy today. I didn't have a grip so I used something less heavy duty but better than nothing, a bit of inner tube.
Thanks to the OP and thanks for stromboy for coming up with a solution. I found it quite fiddly to do especially as I struggled to remove the plastics and had them semi hanging and in the way.
Why did you bother as bike is under warranty ???? Surely just contact dealer :shock:
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Have contacted my local dealer who are finding out about it ,also contacted dealer I bought bike from in Bristol in February so far Bristol says not heard a thing that cud be wrong and no complaints from clients to date, my local dealer in Bournemouth I'm waiting to hear from after they do their investigations which will arrive in due course no doubt,,,,and will let you know,,ASAP, good post ,,,but to me it looks like a one off, a small fire!! can't see chaffing going that bad seems near impossible, :wtf: ... I work in a car garage and have seen a LOT over the years and that picture doesn't seem to be chaffing, :ty:
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Leave it to warranty,,,,all the time u botch it,Suzuki aren't aware of the prob,durrrr
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Hi,
Thanks for this post,just had this problem exactly same place as you described.Done 17k miles so far.Tomorrow will see how bad is that :)
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It appears a zip tie may cut through the insulation and allow the exposed wiring to short out on the frame.
From http://www.stromtrooper.com/general-v-strom-discussion/299697-wiring-warning-weestrom.html
Reading a Fault File in the latest Australian Road Rider mag (Pge 145). About a couple who ended up spending 3 days of their overseas holiday having an electrician tracking an electrical fault in their weestrom. Turned out to be what appears as a minor manufacturing assembly issue. Where the diagnostic plug wiring and main wiring harness are zip tied under the frame which supports the left hand pillion grab handle. There is a sharp edge which in their case had worn through some wiring and shorted out the whole system. I checked mine and sure enough there were early signs of abrasion to the protective sleeve. Simple way to fix - remove the zip tie.
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Thank you. I'll check mine out tomorrow.