Suzuki V-Strom (VStrom) Owners Club DL250, DL650, DL1000 & DL1050
V-Strom specific discussion => V-Strom specific discussion => Topic started by: flyingcbf on April 06, 2024, 13:32:21
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Hi Folks,
My second post. Unfortunately my bike is stuck in third gear. It has been playing up for sometime but things have got worse. I've held in the clutch lever but not joy. Rear wheel in continous spin. I've made a quick video so hope someone could point me in the right direction...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMKuzvWgRAQ
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Looks like your gear selector has issues .
With your bike off , Rock the rear wheel back and forth and Try to change gears with your gear lever.
Doing this , may help you achieve neutral.
For your info, when running in gear, the rear wheel will spin fast even if you pull the clutch in .
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Like Kwackers says, the clutch drag can be enough to turn the rear wheel. Especially with cold oil.
Also like the man says, if you get down with the engine off, rock the rear wheel back and forth with one hand and try and move to neutral with the other.
To eliminate a clutch issue get a willing volunteer to attempt to hold the rear wheel with the rear brake whilst you start it with the clutch pulled in. It shouldn't spin. You could do this yourself by doing it from the O/S as well I spose.
Good luck.
Upt.
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A little insight into how it hot stuck there in the first place might also be helpful.
Upt.
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Have you altered anything? Clutch cable, gear lever height, gear lever connecting link length, moved the clamp round on the splines?
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It was running fine until I gave the bike to my brother to check it. After that, it was having difficulty getting into gears especially from second to third. I brought it home and adjusted the clutch cable at the lever and near the engine. Perhaps that screwed it up even more. I took out the gear lever on the foot, cleaned it and re-greased.
I'll take it off the centre stand and rock back and forth to try and get it to neutral in the morning tommorow. Thanks
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Well as they say always go back to the last thing you worked at so its something your brother did!
I know how he feels, I changed the oil in my brothers 800 mile old fireblade back in 98, took it a test ride and wrapped it round a tractor 5 mile later. At least the oil was nice and clean as it leaked onto the road!
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Quote removed
OK, So I've got it off the centre stand and had it roll back and forth but still no good. Still stuck in 3rd.
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Even with the clutch engaged (say if your clutch cable was broken), you should be able to knock it up and down through the gears by rocking the rear wheel back and forth by hand whilst you hold the lever in either direction (one gear at a time, then you need to return the lever to neutral). Ensure the bike ignition is OFF when you do this, if you turn the engine over enough it could start.
This does very much sound like the linkage is broken inside the engine, as long as the external linkage is OK - you must check it's actuating the gear change rod properly and not fouling on anything, such as if it was adjusted poorly.
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By the looks of your video, the gear lever return spring, part number 20 is functioning properly however, my thoughts are that part number 18 is faulty.
It's this that moves the selector drum through the gears, it's held in position by part numbers 19, 23 & 26, its somehow been dislodged from its correct position on the gear shaft which is causing your issues.
Sometimes this is caused by a fall of some kind.
If it was just worn you'd be able to change gear randomly and it's my feeling that part number 18 has lost its position on the gear shaft.
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OK fellas.
I'm not sure if I was to blame for this. I feel like a right lemon for doing this. When I got the bike, I thought I'd give the front and rear sprockets a clean with parafin (kerosine). I took off the front sprocket cover and sprayed a liberal amount of parafin. After a couple of minutes, I used a jet wash to wash it down. Both the front and rear sprocket.
Is it likely that the parafin ad water has gone into the gear system? :icon_no: :dl_smiley_banghead:
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I doubt it'd have caused a problem that's getting worse and worse. When your brother "checked it", did he ride it and possibly drop it?
It might be prudent to take it to a garage, or at least pop the clutch cover off (you'll need some replacement oil, and possibly a gasket).
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I very much doubt you could squirt enough water in through the seal to cause the problem. If water ingress is the problem, then that water would also be circulating around the engine as well.
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I think you need a conversation with your brother. Is he the sort who might have been very heavy on clutchless changes?
Just saying.
Upt.
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Something I did once. I adjusted the gear lever linkage to make way for my large boot and then found I could not select gears 2nd to top because the linkage was fouling the footrest bracket. It was therefore, stuck in first gear. Fortunately I had only travelled a few yards when this became evident. In the video above I can't see any attempt to lift the gear lever (the operator is wearing sandals - not something for our winter nor for UK bike riding - work gloves and sandals albeit with socks. There is someing odd going on here )
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Quote removed
Yes, I did speak but he can't remember what he did :(. But believes he might have done something wrong
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I just hope that you are not faced with a similar failure, as was discussed in https://www.v-strom.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=18427.0
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Can I re-use the clutch gasket if I open her up? It's 8000 on clock on a 2019 plate. Gasket itself is 50 quid! :icon_no:
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Unlikely as it will be stuck to one or both side of the case.
I've known a few people try and reuse a gasket that came off fairly intact - then ended up replacing it quite soon due to leaks.
Have a look for an aftermarket gasket, but you may struggle due to the lower sales volume of the 250cc not creating much demand.
EDIT: I worked on a Suzuki parts desk for a while, is surprising what you can find when you look.
The part number would appear to be 11482-48H00-000
https://www.bike-parts-suz.com/Suzuki-motorcycle/assignment_spare_parts/1148248H00000
ebay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335282274377?fits=UKM_CCM%3A250%7CUKM_StreetName%3AInazuma&itmmeta=01HV95NXD98KC190SGCD3G28FV&hash=item4e10618049:g:RS8AAOSwDDtl4bov&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8LnmzVbmoZtipB%2BSJydPD1uxv54SBVPxl3NRYUoQzc7gASrtVEOZgFUiJNTwzzdjBbmoUfmDwWWAW0Xm2v5T6mN%2BW78l2z%2FtmJwZ1kqpLz3AAzwoQ3TOmU4NOP4kXEPpY1Bxo8emTQX7nXomIu%2FbGmzyJJTACuklL7RnthO64oNuWdvPwtL63GXrQNAJxDUbZhs2SBRhRWt2x3W9XNZde5Ic5AxxEppUm01tY5LZ66VZBIsDcDTl%2BNY6oAXYFeY6zue%2FsdUYrJ12qb2DdWzZLJxHqESdKQeIF0M5KjruhDyNTc%2FZivcISxXOUoPdV3fO8Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR97W16XaYw
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I love a good parts number rabbit hole!
Especially the "standard parts" part numbers where you can figure out the size of bolts from the number :lala:
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Can I re-use the clutch gasket if I open her up?
My advice to you is get a mechanic to take a look ..
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On another site a member asks for help with a back brake not working. Some well meaning replies offering solutions to possible problems were forthcoming. Me being a "big head" says "brakes need expert attention and not the well meaning guesswork as to the problem or possible solution". Not a well recieved POV. When someone reveals their lack of understanding about the innards of a motorcycle and asks for advice I think it is reckless to offer anything but "contact a qualified mechanic". Back in my young day we had less complicated machines that were all home serviceable to some degree and we had workshop manuals buyers handbooks, books and even magazine articles oozing information that enabled us to keep our bikes running. With no more than an exploded diagram of a BSA B33 engine clutch and gearbox I stripped and rebuilt the engine, new big end and main bearings rebore and piston, new valves springs and guides etc. Renewed the clutch and primary drive and was wise enough to not touch the gearbox with even the smallest spanner. The rebuilt bike ( with 16 inch rims laced to the hubs ) tugged a single seat sidecar around the country for four years until the stork delivered a baby to my wife and a car was bought. You know by now that I'm not clever and I was less clever back then but back then it could be done, unlike now. A cable operated drum brake was pretty simple compared to hydrualic disc brakes with ABS A magneto with points and a carburettor was childs play compared to an ECU and fuel injectors. The only sensible advice for someone with little or no experience is "get a mechanic".
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Harsh but true Brockett. Very harsh. :roll: :thumb:
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I've got it into NEUTRAL!!!
The gear lever now feels as though it's engaging. I've done nothing elese except pop pff the clutch cover...
I popped off the clutch cover, here it is....
https://youtu.be/ZdH-a7Cbj60
The clutch lever in play...
https://youtu.be/IUZDudwhAdc
but hang on!!!!
I've noticed some white residue...
https://youtu.be/IUZDudwhAdc
Could the above be due to water and parafin that I used not long ago which might have crept in???
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Not a mechanic (Dad was) but an engineer who services his own vehicles. Maybe the parrafin caused the clutch plates to stick together hence no clutch. Maybe dribble some oil between the plates with the clutch engaged. Then cover back on & put in some fresh 10/40 motorcycle oil and run for 5-10 minutes while moving the clutch in and out. Then change the oil again and take it for a ride? :shrug:
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Unlikely as it will be stuck to one or both side of the case.
Thans for that! :ty:
The first link does not work.
The second one ebay: IS that compatible with my bike? I'm also looking at cuting out a gasket from a cereal box :)
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Sorry I think I got that video about white residue wrong... Here it is:
https://youtu.be/kttaS_AzGRM
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Not a mechanic (Dad was)
Yes I could try that with the cluthc engaged. It will make a big mess on the floor with no cover on though. But willing to try it with a cheaper oil
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Dark Strom did say put the cover back on before adding fresh oil...
Make sure you don't overfill the oil.
Edit: the white residue could be from paraffin if it got past the seals (I'm guessing you'd need to change the seals if that was the case), but it could possibly be emulsion from condensation if you've used it in winter for lots of short trips.
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With the engine off - Gears can be changed by rotating the rear wheel and moving the gear lever up or down lever. Nothing to do with the clutch.
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My advice to you is get a mechanic to take a look ..
This is a motorcycle mechanic offering his best advice, which is very much valued on here and presumably why you posted asking for help in the first place. Just sayin'...
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Have someone else to help you, if you watch the gear selection mechanism (or perhaps record it) - you should be able to shift through the box by simply moving the rear wheel back / forth (the gears do not line up in the box, hence why you can't shift straight through from 1st to 5th, and also why you sometimes won't be able to change gears at a complete standstill).
You should see the selector mechanism return to centre after each change. Resist the urge to put your fingers in or near the change mechanism or the clutch basket, it will all spin.
At the very least, if taking to a garage isn't an option, if the mechanism now seems to work fine, and gears work, and the clutch appears to work, and we're thinking water in oil contamination, then button it back up, put some proper M/C 10w/40 (or other oil if specced for the DL250) in it with a new filter, run it through, and possibly consider changing the oil out again earlier than specified.
If you have any doubts about it (because if the gears get stuck again, you may get stranded!), I would get a shop to look at it.
Also: Never ever ever direct a pressure washer at any external seals on a bike (well, really any vehicle). They are designed primarily to stop the oil coming out, and low pressure water and crap getting in, so don't do a good job against 1000+psi water trying to get in. I use a pressure washer on my bike only for the final rinse from a distance. Front sprocket cover crap tends to be easier to brush off dry too ;-)
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Purpleunicorn, that was my view, water underneath oil in the engine, I.e water in the gearbox / clutch hence not wanting to shift etc.
OTHERS - The OP had taken the matter into their own hands by taking the clutch cover off, so I was just trying to assist...
(Can't please everyone all the time)
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I've cleaned the back of the clutch cover with brake cleaner and now looks good.
Question: Can I blast brake cleaner on the exposed engine parts?
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https://youtu.be/uuT0LUa_81c?si=xDX9IC9Komukb-_3
My issue is that when selecting first it doesn’t spring back however every other gear is fine , moving up and down it returns to the home position but in first there is a little lag I had the side opened and springs where good ? Maybe the issue is with the lever ??
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The spring has to lift the lever from first gear and it doesn't seem strong enough. For the other gears you are doing the lifting and gravity is helping the lever to return to the resting position. Either the spring is weak or something is binding. It could be that the spring is broken. I would remove the lever and linkage leaving the end attached to the selector shaft and then repeat the experiment that is on the video
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Yes so basically I was doing the steering barring so had the front up , I selected gear so back wheel would lock, at the same time I had the clutch cover removed so as I selected there was nothing for the rod to push against and it come off of the spring , I managed to get it back on the spring , at the same time inspected both springs and linkage and everything looked as it should so I don’t know what next step is
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Can’t upload the photos but in them you can see where it was not seated inside the spring and then once it was sitting correctly
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But yes both springs are good no wear , both in correct position , there is a bit of play in the gear changer maybe it could be this ????
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Before and after
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Before
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After
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Valzdl: If it worked before but doesn't now then something isn't right, could the spring be put on backwards? Has the gear change shaft moved slightly?
Flyingcbf: don't get brake cleaner on any plastic or rubber bits (or painted metals). I wouldn't spray willy nilly around the clutch, there may be plastic gears and seals around ;-)
Be absolutely sure everything works before you button it back up...
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So I got the bike from a friend had sat for 2 years out in the elements with no cover , I basically stripped the whole thing down and half restored it , valve adjustments carb clean steering bearings etc but I don’t know if it was like this before , it’s only on the first gear just there it doesn’t spring up , every other gear is fine I think what I might try is undo the gear shifter and then take the small slack out of the rod and then nut up the the gear shifter , maybe there’s a bit of play there? Apart from that everything ( I’m sure) is where and how it should be hmmmmm
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Yh must be the spring! Been out riding and when you down shift you have to then lift the slack to then go down again, I looked at them and they looked OK but I guess oil drain and go again 😞
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http://youtu.be/Act5P247lTs
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Before you open it back up, disconnect the linkage rod from the gear shift lever and rotate that by hand (or with a pair of molegrips if it's stiff, not on the bare splines without some sacrificial material). Does it still get stuck? Make sure the gear shift lever also moves freely and doesn't get stuck in that downwards position.
If it doesn't, then it might be the position of the clamp on the shift shaft compared to the linkage. There is normally a little dot on the end of Hondas shift shafts from memory, line that dot up with the gap in the clamp.
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Yes OK I will try that!
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Valzdl: If it worked before but doesn't now then something isn't right
I've read your post late and gone around the clutch area and sprayed brake cleaner willy nilly :shock:
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Realistically a quick spritz probably isn't going to harm anything, but brake cleaner (again, depending on brand) can harm plastics and rubbers and painted surfaces.
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If you're really worried then you could flush the engine with flushing oil or just a cheap engine oil once it's back together and then fill with your oil of choice from there so there's no chance of any contamination from residual brake cleaner.
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I'm not sure if using some sort of engine cleaner to flush out the engine oil is a good thing. I think some remnants of the old chemicals cleaning agents will likely reside in the engine unless you flush the engine oil twice but the second time using just engine oil. If that makes sense? :shrug:
I wil most definately have to flush the oil out once with just engine oil, get it to temperature and hope all six gears will engage.
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https://youtu.be/X1p5APo2OMs?si=IYnqZ75qblFFFIzd
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I'm not sure if using some sort of engine cleaner to flush out the engine oil is a good thing. I think some remnants of the old chemicals cleaning agents will likely reside in the engine unless you flush the engine oil twice but the second time using just engine oil. If that makes sense? :shrug:
I wil most definately have to flush the oil out once with just engine oil, get it to temperature and hope all six gears will engage.
Brake cleaner readily flashes off, it'll almost certainly have gone before any "cleaner" is going to get in there and flush it out. Whilst I'd probably change the oil earlier than I would otherwise change it, I wouldn't flush it out unless there is. The most important thing here is to use motorcycle oil, do not just use car oil.
Valzdz - can you unscrew the ball joint bit from the rod, then attach that bit back to the gear shift shaft. That'll give you a bit more of an idea if the spring is perhaps just weak, or if the arm is indeed binding it up. Make sure to check for any indexing marks (dot on the end of the shift shaft, and a dot, or just the split in the bit that goes over it). A service manual might give you an idea of the OE positioning if you can't figure it out.
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Yes I found the dots 👌 but still the down shift don’t return, Yh OK I’ll try that, I had some one in another chat say that the swing arm looks bent and both should be parrell and close together to contact the little tab on the back side of the plate coming off the shift spindle ? I don’t know what he means by both and my swing arm look bent? This was the picture
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Morning Chaps,
So the bike is back up and running and MOTe'd. The one gripe I have is gear shifting.
I came into work today and the gears shifting was super smooth but only for the first 15-20 mins. After that, gear shifting became stiff and difficult (hard) to shift into.
Any suggestions?
Clutch Friction Plates?