Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on December 15, 2016, 15:20:19
http://www.stromtrooper.com/#/topics/353177?page=1&_k=57eprs
Will be interesting to see if this comes across to the UK
Post by: Joe Rocket on December 16, 2016, 14:54:19
Post by: Hondaman on December 16, 2016, 15:26:29
Post by: Joe Rocket on December 16, 2016, 18:45:57
My recall is for the stator only on the 650 and I assume recent models, that is to say at least the AL5.
So, anyone else got the letter yet?
Post by: Tintent115 on December 19, 2016, 17:44:23
Post by: ziggy on December 19, 2016, 18:08:28
Post by: Stonec0ld on December 19, 2016, 19:23:16
.
Post by: 650XT Pete on December 20, 2016, 09:04:31
Post by: Beemer6 on December 20, 2016, 09:30:51
Post by: Hondaman on December 20, 2016, 09:35:10
Do we know what model years are affected?
Post by: pb on December 20, 2016, 10:09:49
Just checked on the Suzuki website, mine needs a new stator. :fix: It's a 650 AL5.
Phoned David Jones in Newtown, it's a 2 hour job, they have the parts so I will make an appointment for the new year.
Well done blokes and girls, this forum works really well. :grin:
PB
Post by: vstroman on December 20, 2016, 11:11:24
Post by: Lincsman on December 20, 2016, 11:42:01
It's good that this has been highlighted on this forum, as I've received no letter from Suzuki ( yet ) what's not clear is if we should carry on using the bike as normal, or wait till the bikes been done.
Thanks for posting this here for the benefit of others.
:thumb: :thumb:
Post by: pb on December 20, 2016, 12:00:43
Post by: WayneS on December 20, 2016, 12:06:27
Does anybody know, exactly, what the recall is for?
Post by: Lincsman on December 20, 2016, 12:28:12
Post by: WayneS on December 20, 2016, 12:30:18
The kit has been ordered and will be fitted in January.
Post by: Stonec0ld on December 20, 2016, 13:06:42
.
Post by: Ccmp on December 20, 2016, 13:39:53
Mine is down for stator replacement and tappet work. The tappet job has actually been done 6 weeks ago.
2013 DL650
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on December 20, 2016, 22:19:47
Post by: alibx11 on December 20, 2016, 22:26:51
I've mine sorned for the winter anyway so will have to wait till the better weather to get done, whatever it is they want to do, must be the stator as I checked 6 months ago and it didn't show up for the Cam recall.
Just a tip for anybody checking the Suzuki website, the checker doesn't work with Firefox browser, does work with Chrome and Edge though.
Post by: bigpie on December 20, 2016, 22:43:53
.
Post by: vstroman on December 21, 2016, 10:13:06
Post by: pb on December 21, 2016, 10:28:54
Post by: doboy on December 21, 2016, 10:44:46
Post by: Buggrit on December 21, 2016, 11:30:01
As stated already by pb, great site for info. I wouldn't have known about this recall otherwise. This will be the 2nd recall on the bike. Not a good advert....
Post by: vstroman on December 21, 2016, 13:21:01
Post by: Little Thumper on December 21, 2016, 17:36:22
I casually enquired with Suzuki GB this morning whether there were any recalls for this bike and to my amazement they informed me that my bike was on the list for the stator recall .
They also informed me that the Suzuki dealer that sold me the bike last Thursday was aware of this recall but had neither told me about it or taken any action to rectify the fault.
I had rather hoped that by choosing to buy from a franchised Suzuki dealership, this kind of problem would not have arisen and now I have to decide how to proceed.
Do you think, the dealer should have acted in this way and should I reject the machine as being unfit for purpose?
Thanks for your advice.
Jo
Post by: WayneS on December 21, 2016, 17:51:25
The bike is too good to reject just for one reason.
Post by: Tintent115 on December 21, 2016, 17:51:49
Booked mine in yesterday, Service Manager said it is 1.9 hours work and the engine needs to cold so they would like the bike left overnight. I am going to combine my trip with it's annual service.....
Post by: Little Thumper on December 21, 2016, 17:56:50
Post by: Hondaman on December 21, 2016, 18:11:51
Don't worry re the recall - it's better them replacing potentially substandard parts than 'turn a blind eye'
Do you think, the dealer should have acted in this way and should I reject the machine as being unfit for purpose?
I fear you'd get laughed out the showroom for suggesting to reject the bike because a recall is due!
However, I feel tge dealer could have given you the option of doing the work before delivery.
I guess you could suggest this to them & request them to collect & redeliver the bike foc but I fear that may lead to a lengthy turnaround (or am I being cynical again)....
Post by: Little Thumper on December 21, 2016, 18:20:50
I just am a little disappointed that the dealer didn't make me aware of this potential problem before selling me the bike.
As the dealer is 5 hours away from me, I think the chances of them offering to pick it up are rather slim.
This is the first time that I have bought a bike unseen and perhaps the moral of the story is buy locally if you possibly can and don't assume that buying from a franchised dealer is always the way to go.
Post by: WayneS on December 21, 2016, 18:21:50
The problem is even if you bought another V-Strom, from elsewhere, you would be faced with the same problem of having the recall work carried out.
The only way around the problem would be to not buy a V-Strom.
The problem seems to have been around for a few years, never had a problem myself, so it is good to see that Suzuki is doing something about it.
Get the recall work carried out and enjoy the bike.
Post by: WayneS on December 21, 2016, 18:29:31
Book your bike in at your local dealer.
I bought my bike from Lincolnshire, I live in Dorset, and the recall work is being carried out by a dealer in Salisbury.
Post by: kwackboy on December 21, 2016, 18:30:38
I wonder how much stripping they have to do to get to the stator, hate the the thought of them messing with my bike, I prefer to do work myself or have a good independent mechanic I know do any more specialised work.
It's not a massive job and no panels need to be removed. To replace a stator all they have to do is drain the oil, remove front sprocket cover then the stator cover and maybe replace the gasket.
The wiring for the stator is fed through between the cylinders to the requlator, it's an hours job at most .
I wonder how many dealers will do the job without replacing the oil ..?
Post by: Hondaman on December 21, 2016, 18:30:58
Don't let this minor, routine issue put a damper on your new purchase, it seems many modern vehicles have recalls for one thing or another. It's just the way it is I'm afraid
The place where I do a bit of work runs a lot of vans. early euro 5 Transits had a recall for the oil pump which could fail suddenly & unexpectedly, siezing the engine. I wonder how many owners had to stump up for a new engine before Ford realised there was a problem AND then dis domething about it.....
Anyway, like I say, don't let this put you off the bike and hopefully you have a decent Suzuki dealer locally
Post by: Little Thumper on December 21, 2016, 18:38:21
Well, that is a good question, Hondaman.
I am halfway between 2 Suzuki dealers - Bill Smith at Chester and Single Tracker at Crewe.
Any idea which might be my best bet?
Thanks
Post by: endintears on December 21, 2016, 18:45:40
Fit for purpose, was he happy for you to set out on that 5000 mile trip of a lifetime you had planned the morning after the bike was delivered before the recall work was done...
Post by: Fat Rat on December 21, 2016, 18:55:08
I really don't want to have to disable the function because it has a purpose when used properly, but I will if people can't play nicely.
For those who are wondering why the pointless quotes are a problem, other than making the site cluttered and difficult to read, it also affects the way search engines pick up our content.
From now on, if I see a post where someone has quoted the one directly above, I am likely just to delete it.
:dl_hyperhysteria:
Post by: Rusty Nuts on December 21, 2016, 19:59:14
Post by: Lincsman on December 21, 2016, 20:48:52
Post by: Stonec0ld on December 21, 2016, 20:51:20
.
Post by: Lincsman on December 21, 2016, 20:53:48
Post by: jem58 on December 21, 2016, 21:08:22
Post by: doboy on December 21, 2016, 22:08:41
Post by: vstroman on December 21, 2016, 23:49:12
Post by: Little Thumper on December 22, 2016, 08:52:08
They contacted the dealer who has admitted that they knew about the recall before my bike was delivered to me but seem to have chosen to take no action.
Suzuki GB inform me that the dealer has conveyed their sincere apologies.
Whether the dealer has the good grace to contact me directly to offer this sincere apology remains to be seen.
It kind of erodes your faith in franchised dealers and the extra premium that you pay for peace of mind that may not actually materialise.
Post by: Hondaman on December 22, 2016, 08:59:14
Post by: revapi on December 22, 2016, 09:08:34
Post by: Harry64 on December 22, 2016, 11:02:35
Steve from Road & Racing in Hyde Manchester.
What a nice bloke sorted it all out for me no problem because I have only had the bike 6 months it was not in my name at Suzuki so the recall letter went to the last owner.
Steve changed all the information on Suzuki website and ordered the new Stator.
:dance: :xmas-smile:
Post by: Little Thumper on December 22, 2016, 12:13:46
Even though I live a fair distance away from them now, I'm thinking about taking my newbie to them for fettling.
Sadly, quite a few of the Suzuki dealers in Greater Manchester/Lancashire are now owned by the same group, so it is great that a smaller, independent Suzuki dealer can still offer a great service.
Hooray!
Post by: Hondaman on December 22, 2016, 13:41:45
I never otherwise use dealers so have no idea who is good or bad.
Post by: Little Thumper on December 22, 2016, 15:03:55
So that will have given dealers plenty of time to get the parts in and put aside some workshop time for all the rectification work.
The time being allowed for this repair is 2 hours, so hopefully nobody will have to wait around too long.
Post by: greywolf on December 22, 2016, 15:31:39
Post by: doboy on December 22, 2016, 16:53:04
Post by: Dave L on December 23, 2016, 14:31:33
I was at my local Suzuki dealer today (Haslemere Motorcycles in Borden) and was told that my L5 650 Vstrom is on the list for a stator replacement and that I would receive notification within the next 2 weeks.
Post by: 650XT Pete on December 23, 2016, 15:06:48
Post by: greywolf on December 23, 2016, 15:12:01
Post by: Stonec0ld on December 23, 2016, 15:48:55
...don't have much confidence in my local dealer after bigpie took his there. SMC Sheffield.
I called them yesterday Pete, they said they'll check with Suzuki and call me back. I'll let you know how it goes
.
Post by: 650XT Pete on December 23, 2016, 16:19:48
Post by: Lincsman on December 23, 2016, 16:41:42
Post by: bigpie on December 23, 2016, 17:34:57
.
Post by: doboy on December 23, 2016, 19:03:44
Post by: bigpie on December 24, 2016, 08:47:37
.
Post by: doboy on December 24, 2016, 09:20:33
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on December 24, 2016, 15:11:39
Post by: greywolf on December 24, 2016, 15:37:35
Post by: Hondaman on December 24, 2016, 15:51:46
Post by: greywolf on December 24, 2016, 16:01:38
Post by: bigpie on December 24, 2016, 17:30:05
Post by: greywolf on December 24, 2016, 17:31:15
Post by: kwackboy on December 24, 2016, 19:25:30
Being in the trade stator/regulator changes are up there with the most frequent jobs I do, Suzuki and triumph are the biggest offender's followed very closely by Honda. Yamaha seems to be mostly regulators however, kawasaki are by far the best in my experience, from memory the one and only charging issue I've had was a versys 650 and that was a stator. So there you are .... buy a kawasaki.
Post by: greywolf on December 24, 2016, 19:33:16
You had an issue with a Kawasaki stator so that means we should buy a Kawasaki? :dl_hyperhysteria:
Motorcycle charging systems are almost universally suspect. Only those with automotive type alternators that regulate their voltage by adjusting power to the field coil are really good. What Suzuki has done on the Veek with embedded magnets and series regulators is pretty close.
Post by: kwackboy on December 24, 2016, 19:48:07
from memory the "one and only"charging issue I've had was a versys 650 and that was a stator. So there you are .... buy a kawasaki.
Post by: greywolf on December 24, 2016, 20:49:13
Post by: doboy on December 26, 2016, 15:57:33
Post by: vstroman on December 26, 2016, 18:40:01
Post by: Rusty Nuts on December 26, 2016, 19:03:33
Post by: doboy on December 29, 2016, 09:04:11
Post by: ziggy on December 29, 2016, 17:30:57
Post by: vstroman on December 29, 2016, 18:05:47
Post by: Madrunner on December 31, 2016, 16:13:00
.
Post by: boomer on January 04, 2017, 20:12:39
Post by: bigpie on January 04, 2017, 21:07:01
.
Post by: Peter P on January 04, 2017, 22:02:56
Didn't receive any formal notice beforehand and wasn't given paperwork confirming the stater had been changed? Seems a bizarre way for Suzuki and their dealership to manage a recall?
Post by: Arto on January 05, 2017, 20:43:26
Post by: Madrunner on January 05, 2017, 20:49:22
.
Post by: jem58 on January 05, 2017, 22:14:10
Didn't receive any formal notice beforehand and wasn't given paperwork confirming the stater had been changed? Seems a bizarre way for Suzuki and their dealership to manage a recall?
Probably because it's not considered a safety related recall ,if it was Suzuki would be via the DVLA contacting all registered keepers. Well that's what Honda had to do early this year and 5 years ago when my Black Spirit was subject to a safety recall.
Post by: Barbel Mick on January 06, 2017, 13:13:58
It says on the letter it is a 'safety recall'!!
Off on holiday for a week from Sunday so I'll call & make arrangements to get it done when we get back. The only decision is, which dealer? When I had the valves done that dealer put the wrong plugs in, standard instead of Iridium, so not keen to use them again!! A post above mentions the Two Wheel Centre in Mansfield, which is only a few miles further, so might give them a chance.
Post by: Hondaman on January 06, 2017, 13:44:05
I still need the valve recall done too.
Post by: Hugo Magnus on January 06, 2017, 13:59:35
Having clocked up 23,500 miles (a lot of which have been two up) and some in v. hot temperatures; would the problem not have shown up by now?
Post by: Stonec0ld on January 06, 2017, 14:12:31
.
Post by: greywolf on January 06, 2017, 14:46:58
Having clocked up 23,500 miles (a lot of which have been two up) and some in v. hot temperatures; would the problem not have shown up by now?Only a small percentage of bikes subject to the problem ever develop it. I've seen many reports of failure not occurring until after 30,000 miles.
Post by: 650XT Pete on January 06, 2017, 15:04:44
Now will have to decide where to take it . Probably in a few months time when back on road as by then it will need it's 12 months service
Post by: JonJo on January 06, 2017, 15:34:23
Paul at M&S told me the Suzuki bulletin says the job schedule is for 2 hrs and includes an oil change but not a new oil filter. He also said that the bike should be stood 'for at least a couple of hours' to cool down before they start the job.
That means 4 hours mooching around the bike shops on Westgate Road for me. I'll leave my bank card at home I think. :icon_no:
Post by: 650XT Pete on January 06, 2017, 15:41:56
Post by: bigpie on January 06, 2017, 15:51:23
Post by: Stonec0ld on January 06, 2017, 16:06:56
My letter came today, I'm loathed to use SMC again
If you do contact them let me know if they book you in or just say they'll contact you later to book in like they did with me.
.
Post by: Hugo Magnus on January 06, 2017, 16:19:50
Post by: bigpie on January 06, 2017, 16:37:41
Post by: FluffiestPond on January 06, 2017, 17:12:33
Post by: Stonec0ld on January 06, 2017, 17:33:06
.
Post by: Ridaz on January 06, 2017, 18:58:42
Post by: Rusty Nuts on January 06, 2017, 19:14:33
Post by: Dark-Strom on January 06, 2017, 19:27:27
My bikes a 62 plate.
I will leave it until March when its warmer :grin:
Post by: bigpie on January 06, 2017, 19:55:00
.
Post by: Hendo on January 06, 2017, 20:29:55
2016 650 XT
Post by: jem58 on January 06, 2017, 20:31:06
Probably because it's not considered a safety related recall ,if it was Suzuki would be via the DVLA contacting all registered keepers. Well that's what Honda had to do early this year and 5 years ago when my Black Spirit was subject to a safety recall.
Hahaha, Less than 24hrs and I get the recall letter too, my bad, it was the DVSA and not the DVLA that get involved.
Suppose I'd better make contact tomorrow with my local dealer, it says they only need the bike for up to 2.5 hrs.
Post by: Ridaz on January 06, 2017, 20:41:35
Post by: metroman on January 06, 2017, 22:27:12
Post by: kwarr on January 07, 2017, 08:37:39
DL650 2012. Choice of 2 dealers - I've had 'issues' with both, although nothing 'over-serious', so I shall just toss a coin and hope....
Post by: Apocalypse Ali on January 07, 2017, 10:05:44
Post by: pb on January 07, 2017, 12:00:01
Next question is for those of you that have already had the work done or who have booked it in, is the dealer suppose to change the oil as they have to drain it out. FOC as part of the recall?. The dealer I spoke to didn't mention it when I spoke to them before Xmas, it would be nice if we all got the same deal! if not maybe we should all contact Suzuki UK? I'm not having mine done until the weather gets better and it needs the yearly service (march) as I don't ride in the winter anyway.
Post by: JonJo on January 07, 2017, 12:55:17
Post by: Sam on January 07, 2017, 14:06:29
So if anyone on here bought a red DL650 glee from Tinklers in Norwich about march/april of last year, you probably won't get a letter but it needs recall work done on it!!!
Post by: Dave L on January 07, 2017, 15:54:12
Letter has duly arrived and bike booked for Friday the 13th....really hope I am not pushing my luck. I noticed a comment earlier about oil, my dealer said nothing about this when I called in. I have just called my dealer who tell me that they will not be draining the oil as the job will be done with the bike on it's side stand and the oil will have drained to the other side of the motor. I had an oil change in September and have only done around 1000 miles since then so should be OK.
Post by: jem58 on January 07, 2017, 15:54:36
Post by: Rusty Nuts on January 07, 2017, 15:56:17
a) How many stators have failed worldwide
2) How many will be changed altogether
Post by: ms666 on January 07, 2017, 16:00:56
Post by: greywolf on January 07, 2017, 16:12:20
I have just called my dealer who tell me that they will not be draining the oil as the job will be done with the bike on it's side stand and the oil will have drained to the other side of the motor.Well that's interesting. Suzuki specifies an oil change as part of the procedure. Tell your dealer the stator is on the left side of the bike before he tries to replace the clutch with the new stator.
Post by: Hondaman on January 07, 2017, 16:40:24
Post by: 650XT Pete on January 07, 2017, 16:52:57
Post by: vstroman on January 07, 2017, 19:22:35
Post by: Dave L on January 07, 2017, 19:48:22
Was the oil and filter change part of the recall or did you perhaps pay for them separately?
My dealer is saying "we may need to top 100ml of oil up but rest assured you will leave us with the correct level".
Post by: greywolf on January 07, 2017, 19:52:10
Post by: DerekMair on January 07, 2017, 20:52:18
Post by: vstroman on January 07, 2017, 22:24:24
Hi,
Was the oil and filter change part of the recall or did you perhaps pay for them separately?
My dealer is saying "we may need to top 100ml of oil up but rest assured you will leave us with the correct level".
The oil and filter change was part of the recall, cost me nothing, genuine Suzuki filter too, I usually use a hi flo filter.
Post by: vstroman on January 07, 2017, 22:26:59
Post by: Little Thumper on January 08, 2017, 15:44:21
Suzuki GB did say that they would ask the Dealer Principal to ring me to sort the matter out but it doesn't look like he's going to bother.
So, I have booked my new bike in with Single Tracker of Crewe and have every confidence that they will sort it for me.
Post by: Freddyfruitbat on January 08, 2017, 19:26:03
Post by: Dark-Strom on January 08, 2017, 19:39:53
I was told 500miles and sub 5000rpm to run them in, of which I still have a good 300miles left.
So should I wait til the summer and do a good few miles to make the most of the free oil change or is there a time limit on the stator recall?
Ta.
Post by: Oldrover on January 08, 2017, 21:17:57
Post by: greywolf on January 08, 2017, 22:26:29
Post by: kwarr on January 10, 2017, 09:05:41
.
Post by: mr_diver on January 10, 2017, 13:11:16
Post by: SuzukiSte on January 10, 2017, 13:23:54
.
Post by: Hondaman on January 10, 2017, 13:42:12
I'm still nervous about the whole experience though.....
Post by: SuzukiSte on January 10, 2017, 14:25:35
.
Post by: JonJo on January 10, 2017, 15:00:39
Post by: Hondaman on January 10, 2017, 15:41:07
#Hondaman Hyde road and race are a good outfit mine is due in there as well.Yeah, it's a name that has cropped up a few times with positive comments from here so fingers crossed.
.
Post by: In me shed on January 10, 2017, 16:41:19
Post by: mrp192 on January 10, 2017, 17:58:36
https://www.Suzuki-gb.co.uk/motorcycles/about/extras/vin-checker/
I say this as I bought my AL5 new in December 2015 from Orwell in Ipswich and subsequently found it wasn't listed as an official UK bike despite it having a Suzuki GB warranty and paperwork etc.
Orwell, who I find excellent, enquired and it turned out that my bike had been one of a batch of overstock from France that Suzuki GB has bought in when they found they hadn't ordered enough bikes.
They had employed a third party company to load all the details onto their systems for it to be shown as an official import but my bike never made it to the database. Mine may have been a one off or there may be other official GB bikes from the same batch that also missed the cut.
Suzuki UK were supposed to completely UK the bike re lights and warning decals etc and I have since found that one of the decals is in French and according to the manual there are several missing altogether (no bad thing as think unsightly anyway).
Bottom line, I have received a letter for the recall and my bike is on the recall database, and will be booking it in shortly at Orwells to try and get it done with the 7500 service.
Also going to get them to re enquire about the valve recall from last year as I was told it was not on the list at that time but may have been whilst the bike was 'incommunicado'.
Hope this helps.
Just an idea but would it be possible for the forum admin to bring this vin checker website to the attention to all the forum members with AL5 Glees just in case there are some not reading this thread?
Post by: alibx11 on January 10, 2017, 18:45:17
Warranty is the same for EU bikes as "official UK" bikes, and recalls apply across the board.
Post by: bigpie on January 10, 2017, 18:56:23
.
Post by: Arto on January 10, 2017, 21:20:52
They only sent the Gasket, the Stator parts are out of stock until late January apparently. Not an issue for me, I'll wait until the parts are confirmed as in and then get the work done.
Post by: PZ on January 10, 2017, 21:49:27
Got my letter last Friday and managed to get the job done today at GLM in Edgware - London, where I bought my AL6. My question is does the work done get recorded anywhere? I brought the service book along with the letter but the dealer says recall jobs are recorded only in the Suzuki database. I also didn't get a summary of what was done, obviously the stator was changed... I am not too bothered about he oil change as I had the first service done last month. Any different experiences anyone?
Post by: Centurian on January 11, 2017, 17:53:08
Post by: Rusty Nuts on January 11, 2017, 18:00:19
See this thread from just over a year ago...
http://www.v-strom.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=28271.0
Post by: SuzukiSte on January 11, 2017, 18:52:39
Post by: mrp192 on January 12, 2017, 22:14:46
Just hope this poor weather blows over as 120 mile round trip and don't relish some of the smaller roads in the snow.
Post by: Stonec0ld on January 13, 2017, 15:25:54
.
Post by: Hugo Magnus on January 14, 2017, 13:20:28
Post by: boomer on January 14, 2017, 16:37:42
Post by: SuzukiSte on January 14, 2017, 18:44:15
.
Post by: Dave L on January 14, 2017, 19:00:57
Recall sorted, on Friday the 13th.... Paid for the oil change.
Post by: karlandbev on January 14, 2017, 19:02:29
Post by: greywolf on January 14, 2017, 19:07:50
Post by: Rusty Nuts on January 14, 2017, 19:24:15
"What is Suzuki Motor of America, Inc., doing to correct the defect? Your Suzuki dealer will install an improved stator assembly. This procedure will take approximately 2 hours to complete. Parts are available now, and there will be no charge to you for any recall service-related parts or labor."
I can't find mention specifically of an oil change, or even a topping-up, although it's difficult to imagine doing the job without.
Our DSA letter says of the stator ( and the bold / underlining is theirs, not mine) "We will check and repair all of the above as required. This must be undertaken by a Suzuki Authorised Dealer who will perform the necessary work at no cost to yourself."
Post by: greywolf on January 14, 2017, 20:13:22
Post by: Rusty Nuts on January 14, 2017, 20:24:37
Post by: SuzukiSte on January 14, 2017, 20:40:18
Post by: Gert on January 15, 2017, 06:42:58
Post by: Rusty Nuts on January 15, 2017, 07:32:23
Post by: greywolf on January 15, 2017, 15:44:02
Post by: Rusty Nuts on January 15, 2017, 17:27:32
I'm 100% with you on how it should be handled, but Dave L's experience seems to fall short of that.
Post by: greywolf on January 15, 2017, 19:01:39
Post by: Rusty Nuts on January 15, 2017, 19:13:26
Post by: Gert on January 16, 2017, 05:48:44
Post by: Hondaman on January 16, 2017, 06:49:47
It's not a service so I suppose that's why they don't stamp it.
Post by: Hugo Magnus on January 16, 2017, 07:25:37
Oh, and they did change my oil FoC.
Post by: SuzukiSte on January 16, 2017, 07:29:58
.
Post by: Gert on January 17, 2017, 05:55:32
Post by: WayneS on January 17, 2017, 12:10:46
The job took about 1.5 hours.
They kept me informed by text and everything was dealt with professionally and very quickly.
I have never had any of my bikes visit a dealer and having recall work carried out was a first.
You hear such bad experiences with dealers but this was a good experience.
Post by: Holmsey on January 17, 2017, 12:39:21
Post by: Firestorm on January 17, 2017, 16:49:18
Post by: TLPower on January 17, 2017, 16:52:29
Post by: Holmsey on January 17, 2017, 18:51:34
Post by: Jay650xt on January 17, 2017, 19:46:50
.
Post by: SuzukiSte on January 17, 2017, 20:40:22
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on January 17, 2017, 21:35:27
I've only owned two new bikes including the Glee, both of which have now been subject to recalls. My Yamaha XVS1300 cruiser had a recall for the fuel line which in the US was documented to leak petrol onto the engine when ridden :shock:
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on January 18, 2017, 22:25:53
Post by: Holmsey on January 18, 2017, 22:42:53
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on January 18, 2017, 23:23:55
Post by: Holmsey on January 19, 2017, 00:04:26
Post by: mr_diver on January 19, 2017, 08:22:20
A reputable dealer will not put old oil back in as the bowls used will be contaminated by old oil from other bikes.
Even if you changed the oil the day before a dealer will put fresh back in.
If consumables are required to carry out recall work, they should be covered as part of the recall.
Filters are not required to carry out the recall thus are extra cost if a service is due at the time of recall or you request it.
Post by: Holmsey on January 19, 2017, 13:15:58
Something tells me he is trying to make money on the deal if Suzuki are paying for the oil.
My question again ... is it written somewhere so I can show him when I take the bike in on Tuesday? ?
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on January 19, 2017, 13:24:30
Post by: Stonec0ld on January 19, 2017, 13:48:30
.
Post by: SuzukiSte on January 19, 2017, 14:35:49
Get them told :thumb:
Post by: Holmsey on January 19, 2017, 15:14:54
Unfortunately she could not give me a copy of the instructions as they are for dealers eyes only ..... so any problems contact Suzuki.
Hope that helps people :thumb:
Post by: greywolf on January 19, 2017, 15:25:41
Post by: Holmsey on January 19, 2017, 15:27:52
Post by: greywolf on January 19, 2017, 16:28:42
Post by: Holmsey on January 19, 2017, 16:40:35
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on January 19, 2017, 17:59:57
Post by: bigpie on January 19, 2017, 19:38:08
Got mine booked in for Monday at SMC. They said they'd need it for a couple of hours
Let me know if you get it back the same day, I think I'll just let them do it.
Post by: Stonec0ld on January 19, 2017, 19:51:42
.
Post by: mrp192 on January 19, 2017, 21:21:26
My bike is in tomorrow and when I asked about this was told the oil wasn't included as Suzuki don't reimburse the dealer for it!
It's also there for 7500 service so, as the dealer hasn't signed up to the Suzuki winter service offer, was hoping the oil as part of the recall would cut the bill a bit.
If you can pass the details I will call them before I drop my bike off at lunchtime.
Thanks.
Post by: alibx11 on January 19, 2017, 21:40:00
I received me letter on Monday so will wait till the better weather before I sort it out, problem is the 2 nearest Suzuki dealers to me within 70 miles are both owned by the same people so if they don't change the oil will have to come over to England to get it done somewhere.
Will post the response from Suzuki as soon as I get it.
Post by: Holmsey on January 19, 2017, 23:04:22
Post by: mrp192 on January 20, 2017, 07:41:06
Post by: pb on January 20, 2017, 10:31:10
Post by: alibx11 on January 20, 2017, 12:47:40
"Thank you for your recent e-mail.
I can confirm, all Authorised Suzuki Dealership are required to drain and refill the engine oil when they complete the stator recall as per instructions from the Factory in Japan.
If you have any issues relating to this once you speak with your Authorised Suzuki Dealership, please notify us so we can contact them directly.
Should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us on 08085 011 959.
Kind Regards
Michelle Casey"
Hope this helps with any problems... I'd say if they didn't change your oil they've probably pocketed the oil change reimbursement from Suzuki.
Post by: Hondaman on January 20, 2017, 13:42:22
Personally, I'm not bothered if they don't renew the oil as I'd sooner change it myself after a couple of hundred miles when it's had time to flush any (inevitable) contaminants out.
Post by: Rusty Nuts on January 20, 2017, 13:49:03
Post by: vstroman on January 20, 2017, 14:48:11
Post by: Rusty Nuts on January 20, 2017, 15:39:50
Post by: Skoonbum on January 20, 2017, 15:41:29
Yep I've a 2013 model and letter arrived last week, says safety Recall: Suzuki DL650 Stator Assembly Replacement Recall Campaign.
Pertinent points are:
....."Suzuki has identified that due to the lack of heat resistant capacity of the stator coil, the insulation material of wiring for the stator may be damaged by engine heat and a short circuit between the wiring may occur. Continued use of the motorcycle with this condition may cause the generating current of the stator coil to be reduced and insufficient charging to the battery may result. IN the worst case, it can lead to the engine stalling during running and/or the engine may be impossible to restart due to low battery voltage"
Suzuki state 2.5 hrs required for the repair. Nobody wants a recall but fair play to them I suppose.
So, I'll need to head south and get booked into Cupar Suzuki as soon as it warms up a tad up here! At least that an excuse to get the bike out early.
Cheers and what a brilliant forum we all have here.
Post by: Joe Rocket on January 20, 2017, 16:40:24
I had my stator changed today at Superbike 56 in Vannes. My letter did not state the oil and filter would be changed
When I asked about the oil they said very little was lost, "a couple of drops" was the translation, so no need to drain, only to check level after the job was complete, and that Suzuki will not pay for new oil and filter.
If you get away with it then good for you but if you ask to have it done then you'll get the bill I presume. Maybe that's just France of course.
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on January 20, 2017, 19:57:57
I was told the first replacement stator they installed was faulty, so they had to replace that one with one they had in for someone else's recall who isn't due in yet -sorry if it was yours...)
Post by: Joe Rocket on January 20, 2017, 21:45:55
sorry if it was yours...
No you're not! lol
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on January 20, 2017, 22:01:07
:auto-dirtbike:
Post by: imindoors on January 20, 2017, 23:08:14
Its probably in my head, but the engine feels smoother.
Credit where it's due. JTs in swansea were quick and efficient. They have had some bad press but I have always found them great.
Post by: jem58 on January 21, 2017, 16:51:47
Post by: Dave L on January 23, 2017, 05:53:17
I have had my stator replaced (on Friday the 13th....) and initially on being told that they would "top up the oil" I paid for an oil change. I then queried this with Suzuki GB via their website and here is the reply:
"Dear Mr Xxxx,
Thank you for your e-mail and for your patience whilst we investigated your concerns.
I can confirm, all Authorised Suzuki Dealership are required to drain and refill the engine oil when they complete the stator recall as per instructions from the Factory in Japan. I have spoken with Tom in the Service Department at Haselmere Motorcycles and it seems that they were provided with incorrect information with regards to the oil change on the stator recall, the Dealership were not at fault, please accept our apologies for this confusion.
Tom has invited you to attend the Dealership at your earliest convenience so he can arrange a refund for the charge of the oil change.
I apologise for the inconvenience caused, should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us on 08085 011 959.
Kind Regards
Michelle Casey
Suzuki GB PLC
Steinbeck Crescent, Snelshall West, Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, MK4 4AE"
I have since been refunded and if anyone is still having issues I would use the toll free number from Suzuki.
Post by: Mitch on January 23, 2017, 11:51:29
I questioned them on the changing of the oil.
They said it did not require an oil change simply a top-up of any oil lost during the process ??.
My question is. Do they get given oil in the kit of parts supplied by Suzuki ?. If so are they selling this over the counter for extra profit.
Does that oil now belong to me ?
Any ideas !
Post by: alibx11 on January 23, 2017, 12:34:54
So if they are not changing your oil they're making an extra few quid on every recall they're doing, on top of the labour which they are also reimbursed for.
Post by: Mitch on January 23, 2017, 13:20:04
Post by: bigpie on January 23, 2017, 14:43:16
.
Post by: Stonec0ld on January 23, 2017, 14:44:18
.
Post by: Mitch on January 23, 2017, 14:51:49
Have contacted the dealer for a response.
Just had a call back to say unfortunately the renewal of the oil on my bike was "overlooked".
They have offered to do an oil change if I want to ride through the salty roads again, or book time off work when the weather is better. They said my bike has to be filled using the "bulk oil" and they cannot simply hand me a bottle of oil which is stacked up behind their service dept. counter. :shrug:
Post by: alibx11 on January 23, 2017, 16:06:43
At the end of the day the dealers are being paid for oil that they're not putting in during the recall.
If the jobs classed as a 2 hr job from Suzuki, they'll be paid 2 hrs labour regardless if it can be done in 1.5hrs or less, so they're making more there too. Warranty labour times are usually on the generous side.
I worked in the motortrade and know this goes on if they can get away with it.
Post by: Stonec0ld on January 23, 2017, 16:24:56
.
Post by: mrp192 on January 23, 2017, 16:45:19
Very good service and everything explained clearly. I believe the filter was a bonus as they are not signed up to Suzukis winter service offer after I had gone to the trouble of applying for the membership card.
Again I can't fault Orwells service.
Post by: bigpie on January 23, 2017, 17:42:00
.
Post by: boomer on January 23, 2017, 19:18:43
Post by: BlackRockFox on January 23, 2017, 19:57:16
They are replacing them as there is a high chance of failure!
Post by: doboy on January 23, 2017, 20:03:35
Post by: 650XT Pete on January 23, 2017, 20:06:55
Post by: Stonec0ld on January 23, 2017, 20:08:14
.
Post by: Holmsey on January 24, 2017, 13:15:13
Post by: Little Thumper on January 26, 2017, 16:54:10
It was due to go in next Monday morning.
Single Tracker have rung me to say that Suzuki UK do not have the parts, so they have had to cancel!
They will be in touch when more parts arrive from Japan.
Not ideal but there you go.
Jo
Post by: mrp192 on January 26, 2017, 17:27:23
I don't want to suggest your dealer is taking the Mick but it was suggested some dealers will postpone warranty work if busy as it pays a much lower rate than customer work.
Perhaps checking with Suzuki re parts might be in order?
Post by: Little Thumper on January 26, 2017, 17:35:24
I shall email my friends at Suzuki HQ and see what's going on.
Jo
Post by: bigpie on January 26, 2017, 19:11:23
.
Post by: Joe Rocket on January 26, 2017, 19:21:02
Changing the oil is not necessary, just a top up, but if you have it done for free then good for you. (I said that before)
It is not a maintenance recall; in fact Suzuki are being very kind to all Glee owners concerned to ensure there is no general breakdown of the Stator which may never happen anyway.
I'm happy to have this degree of concern for everyone personally without considering what else I can get out of it! :thumb:
Post by: Rusty Nuts on January 26, 2017, 19:26:40
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on January 26, 2017, 19:33:14
Post by: alibx11 on January 26, 2017, 23:19:59
Does it matter what the dealer is doing? Are you expecting to have the oil changed? :shrug:
You think Suzuki are being kind?
They have had to recall because there was an unacceptable number of units failing, showing that the part was not up to standards or fit for purpose.
Wonder if you'd say the same if you were one of the people that fell victim to a failing stator and were left stranded and out of pocket considerably to rectify the fault before it became known as a faulty part?
Would you say the same if it was a brake recall with a safety aspect and just play the law of averages that it won't affect you?
I certainly wouldn't have been happy if mine had failed on my tour of Belgium and Luxembourg last year and left me stranded.
I know any part can fail and cause a breakdown but if it was a result of a high failure rate part and Suzuki hadn't recalled it!
Regarding changing the oil, as the stator is oil bathed do you think it would be good practice from manufacturer to recall and fit a new part and either keep or put old oil back in the engine?
There are specific procedures to follow for workshop jobs that as an authorised dealer should be up to factory standards, and keeping or putting old oil back in an engine is not one of them, neither is tipping the bike over to save most of the old oil and topping it up as some other posters have reported the dealer is intending.
If your happy with the work that was done on yours then good for you but don't think others are on the lamb for wanting the job done as Suzuki say it should be done.
Post by: Mitch on January 27, 2017, 12:35:12
Does it matter what the dealer is doing? Are you expecting to have the oil changed? :shrug:
Yes it does when Suzuki are paying the dealer to change the oil. Its OK them being able to change the part well within the 2.5 hours they get paid for and pocket this , but robbing the customer of oil they are also being paid for is criminal. Mine had new oil in it anyway so didn't need to be changed but its the principle. My bike won't see that dealership ever again. Neither will I go there when I upgrade my bike.
Post by: Hondaman on January 27, 2017, 13:03:34
Personally, I think a worldwide recall for a few seemingly isolated issues re the cam issue and the possiblility of stator failure is mighty fine of them and is no doubt further than many other manufacturers would go to look after their customers.
It's a shame these things happen but they do, Suzuki have gone to rectify things and that's fine by me.
Post by: Dave L on January 27, 2017, 15:09:10
The official reply from Suzuki UK is attached. They are responsible to replace the oil in your DL650, ALL of it, not just a top up.
Use the contact details on the e mail to contact them if your local dealer tells you otherwise. I had my £41 refunded as I decided to pay for an oil change when they initially told me they would just top the engine up.
Post by: Rusty Nuts on January 27, 2017, 15:22:38
Post by: Hondaman on January 27, 2017, 16:02:19
Post by: Little Thumper on January 27, 2017, 16:32:23
So there may be a little bit of a wait.
Post by: greywolf on January 27, 2017, 16:43:21
Post by: Joe Rocket on January 27, 2017, 19:20:50
What I stated before was the opinion of my 'dealer', both from the sales front and the workshop. There was no intent on my part to suggest "others are on the lamb" as you put it. I'll take greater care when expressing a view in the future as others can take it differently.
I shall send a mail to Vannes asking for their position on the work specified by Suzuki and be happy to let you know their response. How's your French..... :smirk:
Post by: alibx11 on January 27, 2017, 20:26:16
Like I said before if dealers can get away with it they will short change you on warranty work.
I've worked in quite a few main dealers (cars) and have seen some shortcuts taken with warranty work.
They get paid a discounted labour rate than retail customers pay but as I have said the labour hours allowed tend to be on the generous side to compensate, but as they consider that the customer paying is Suzuki and not the customer they do tend to cut corners.
I have seen "mechanics" only fitting half the supplied parts before in warranty work because some of them were a pain to fit and "didn't really need fitting" so they ended up in the bin, saved on labour times, job was done in less time and mechanic was able to move onto another job, they earn money for the garage for the hours billed, not hours actually worked, they can bill for 11 or 12 hours a day but only work for 8.
I would imagine that the Suzuki France procedure would be the same as elsewhere, but again it could have been a communucation error between Suzuki and the dealers instructions that have caused the discrepancy.
Although my experience lends me to my first opinion, unfortunately. :shrug:
Post by: vstroman on January 27, 2017, 21:47:30
I trust few people, especially main dealers.
they don't give or show you the old part and there is no receipt or paperwork of any kind.
only thing the bike doesn't show on Suzuki's system anymore as needing a recall.
Post by: mrp192 on January 28, 2017, 18:41:05
You would think that they would barcode an item on to a particular bike so they could trace them later?
Post by: greywolf on January 28, 2017, 20:06:16
Post by: vstroman on January 30, 2017, 13:52:19
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on January 30, 2017, 22:56:39
Am hoping something will be done tomorrow otherwise the bike will be stuck 100 miles away from my house.
Post by: Hondaman on January 31, 2017, 06:49:00
Having said that, 13.6v wouldn't cause the battery to flatten.
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on January 31, 2017, 07:46:18
(Should probably avoid the A1 as if I breakdown in the roadworks on the opposite carriageway that won't be pretty!)
Post by: Charmin on February 04, 2017, 05:02:03
Mine is a 16 XT, so I call directly to Suzuki Mexico they checked the VIN and says that stator needs to be replaced. Other sources says that issue is not present on units manufactured after Oct 2015, mine is May 2016 and anyway they have to change it.
Seems that they prefer to change all units because is not clear which ones are defective and which ones are not.
Sent from my XT1063 using Tapatalk
Post by: doboy on February 04, 2017, 09:27:34
Post by: trip67 on February 04, 2017, 20:33:39
Post by: greywolf on February 04, 2017, 21:33:57
Post by: Little Thumper on February 07, 2017, 18:18:22
This is the first time that I have used Single Tracker and I was very impressed with their friendly and efficient service.
Hooray!
Post by: bigpie on February 07, 2017, 18:50:00
Post by: mr_diver on February 07, 2017, 20:11:27
Suzuki will not have any ready for dispatch until a new batch are produced.
Patience is what you need.
Post by: bigpie on February 08, 2017, 06:49:10
.
Post by: Snapper on February 08, 2017, 14:56:06
I was looking forward to getting out of there without having opened my wallet :grin:, but sadly I caught a rear puncture on the way there (from a nail, which the Suzuki dealer actually spotted before I even had a chance to mention it) and so I had to pay them £30 for the repair. Well worth it though :icon_wink: .
So, my first ever vehicle recall was a very good experience :) .
Post by: crazyhorse on February 13, 2017, 15:20:17
Has anybody noticed the part number for the stator's being installed, if so please could you let me know.
Cheers
Crazyhorse
Post by: greywolf on February 13, 2017, 15:26:35
Post by: crazyhorse on February 14, 2017, 19:37:40
Regards
Crazyhorse
Post by: doboy on February 17, 2017, 08:50:47
Post by: King Orry on February 17, 2017, 10:24:23
Post by: insomniac on February 17, 2017, 11:47:40
However Suzuki here can't get the parts until after April 2017, so they suggested calling the dealer and arrange to have it booked in, the dealer would then contact me once the parts are with them.
Looks like the dealerships are going to be busy from April on-wards, get you bikes booked in now folks.
Post by: alibx11 on February 17, 2017, 18:24:05
Post by: greywolf on February 17, 2017, 18:50:33
Post by: vstroman on February 17, 2017, 20:50:38
Post by: vstroman on February 18, 2017, 00:56:16
Post by: revapi on February 18, 2017, 09:53:26
Post by: bigpie on February 18, 2017, 13:50:07
.
Post by: pb on February 19, 2017, 09:06:09
Well done to doboy for posting up the recall letter from the other site as without it I wouldn't have been able to insist that it was.
This site is so helpful :thumb:
Post by: Tintent115 on February 22, 2017, 19:47:49
I had a mooch round the show room whilst there, no new vstroms to look at, but loads of bikes, new, pre reg & secondhand with "Sold" stickers on, looks like being a good year for bike sales...?
Post by: Chris on February 23, 2017, 18:44:04
Post by: SV STROM on March 01, 2017, 13:05:59
booked in at Laguna Maidstone who swapped it out in a couple of hours second time I've used them
for recall work and second time I've had no problem no I don't work for them :grin:
Credit where its due.
Post by: King Orry on March 14, 2017, 16:13:09
Dropped it off at lunch and had a text 21/2 hrs later saying it was ready to collect (worksheet had details of the oil added too).
A red 2015 Glee was outside when I arrived, not sure if that was having the same done.
I got them to detail the recall in my Service book too, stops me losing paperwork. :grin:
Post by: rideout on March 14, 2017, 19:24:26
Got a price for chain and sprockets £180 is that about right
Post by: Lincsman on March 15, 2017, 13:26:30
Getting mine done there soon, did they change the oil do you know. As for the chain and sprockets, look on e bay that might give you a better idea if that's a fair price, as I've only had mine 9 months, I'm not the best person to answer if that's a good price or not.
Post by: SuzukiSte on March 15, 2017, 20:13:16
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on March 15, 2017, 20:54:53
Post by: Mitch on March 16, 2017, 07:55:23
Do you mind me asking where the work was carried out. Mine is due soon.
Thanks
Post by: euler on March 16, 2017, 08:04:29
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on March 16, 2017, 08:33:34
Post by: pb on March 16, 2017, 10:17:08
Had the 1st year service done at the same time as oil is included in the recall, so I didn't have to pay for it, however still cost £114 for service as they had to change the break fliud "as it looked a bit dark" . On a bike that is only just over 1 year old thought that was a bit strange but it wasn't dear, I told him I don't use the brakes much, he said it could have been a bad batch!
All work completed in just over 2 hours so not too long a wait.
Runs nice now with the new oil in!
17c on the way home, the only advantage to not living near the garage is that you can include a bit of a rideout at the same time. :lala:
Post by: greywolf on March 16, 2017, 12:18:13
Post by: pb on March 16, 2017, 13:14:56
Post by: UK_Vstrom650 on March 16, 2017, 13:26:50
Post by: Arto on March 16, 2017, 20:48:04
Post by: Chris on March 22, 2017, 18:27:34
Can't find the online checker any more on the Suzuki website :icon_exclaim:
Post by: alibx11 on April 05, 2017, 17:35:08
Took my bike in today for the stator... told it would take about an hour after 2 hrs the mechanic comes out and says you'll have to leave it with us, the clutch is fooked...??? WTF
"What do you mean the clutch is fooked?" says I.
"It won't engage or disengage" says he " it's like the clutch isn't connected at all."
"Well it was fine when it came in" says I.
"I know it was" says he, "but it's not working now so I'm going to have to take the right hand casing off to check nothing has come adrift, but that's the coolant side so we're going to have to order gaskets for the casing as well and they won't be in till friday"
"###" says I, " how am I going to get home?"
"Oh we'll have to lend you the demonstrator"... so I've now got a Black 130mile old 650 strom in me shed... :whistle:
Tell you what... I'd be tempted to change, It's a nice bike,( apart from the beak), a lot smoother than mine, less vibes, dash is a bit cluttered though for my liking, ( odd to have a neutral light and a N in the gear indicator window) and there's a bigger gap round the steering head which lets me view those ugly side reflectors bolted onto the forks which keep catching my eye, but seat feels more comfortable and suspension even feels nicer. Probably just the fact that it's new makes the difference, but it is nice.
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/alibx11/V-Strom/DSC_0149_zps0mrl3zih.jpg) (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/alibx11/media/V-Strom/DSC_0149_zps0mrl3zih.jpg.html)
Post by: Apocalypse Ali on May 12, 2017, 13:49:15
Post by: Freddyfruitbat on May 16, 2017, 00:20:12
Like alibx11, I got given a 2017 Glee for the day. Rather liked it; seemed a little bit more nimble than my own 2013 model though maybe that was my imagination. The brakes were surprisingly brisk, not sure whether a bit overly frisky for my liking or whether they were just new and I needed more time to get used to them? I've always the brakes on my own bike were really good. It also had this 'low RPM assist' supposed to make stop-start riding in heavy traffic easier; to be honest I didn't really get it, and after stalling twice, stopped trying!
And I have to say, the dreaded beak didn't look half as bad to me in real life as it had when I'd seen it in pictures!
Post by: doboy on May 16, 2017, 08:25:45
Post by: Ridaz on May 27, 2017, 17:45:07
They loaned me this while they carried out the work.
(https://s6.postimg.org/ierex5e69/GSX_750.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xapy4qpkt/)
WOW - That bike is good fun
Post by: Dingerb68 on June 03, 2017, 23:39:33
Post by: greywolf on June 04, 2017, 00:40:59
Post by: alibx11 on June 08, 2017, 14:19:14
This is how I got mine back back after stator recall, not even topped up, sent images to Suzuki UK and they weren't too bothered. Told me that according to the dealer the oil was changed and to contact them.
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/alibx11/V-Strom/DSC_0150_zpshiwuyoc4.jpg) (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/alibx11/media/V-Strom/DSC_0150_zpshiwuyoc4.jpg.html)
Post by: smokiewazhere on June 19, 2017, 22:01:33
It takes about two and a half hours to do
Post by: 650XT Pete on June 22, 2017, 19:44:16