20 is plenty in Wales

[Rusty Nuts]

90% of Welsh respondents didn't want it. Does that make Drakeford a dictator? Discuss.....or not, the rules, you know.

[The Doctor 46]

I had a go at riding through the 30mph village where I live today. Most people come through at a speed of at least 40mph and there is often a speed camera van almost hidden away at the edge of the village where drivers are usually travelling slowest but aiming at the on coming traffic entering the village from 60mph and almost always speeding. To be honest, 40mph would be completely safe in my opinion.

Riding at 20mph seemed ridiculous. I don't think I'll be going to Wales any time soon. 

[Joe Rocket]

To be honest, 40mph would be completely safe in my opinion.

Riding at 20mph seemed ridiculous. I don't think I'll be going to Wales any time soon. 

Come on Doc, totally wrong on 40mph! Completely safe, my a*se.

I drive in Germany occasionally where 20 mph (30 kph) in villages and towns is normal. Even France has similar limits in built up areas.  Yes, at first it wasn't what I was used to but where's the fire?

Don't go to Wales then.....and maybe a lot of other places in the future.

[Hugo Magnus]

" A pedestrian hit a 20 mph can still die just as easily as one hit at 30 mph!"

Especially if you reverse back over them as well.

[StromGeeza]

I suspect a serious topic like this should not have been in the 'humour' forum...I

I'm surprised (and not surprised) by all the misinformation being bandied about.

Reminds me of the hoo -ha when drink- drive legislation was beefed up, or seat belt wearing made compulsory, or laws on mobile phone use while driving, and the rest.

You cannot alter the fact that the kinetic energy of a given vehicle is proportional to the speed squared. In plain English, double the speed, you've got 4 times the motion energy to dump into other forms. Remember those Highway Code stopping distance charts...

I suspect a lot of the wailing now is from the some of the same people who have wanted road safety measures put in near their kid's school or on their rat-run streets...

[Rusty Nuts]

If velocity is the killer, why so few pedestrian deaths on motorways?
Because people don't generally wander across them.
Maybe it's not all the big bad drivers who are at fault.
Ever since 1816 the roads have been improving, allowing faster, safer and more comfortable travel over longer distances. The vehicles have evolved to use these roads.
It would be interesting to see if speed was the sole factor in the deaths attributed to it. Drink, drugs, mobile phone use, as well as pedestrian stupidity would, I suspect, all contribute.

[Rixington43]

Well since the reduction from 20mph to 10mph will be a 50% reduction instead of a 33% reduction, the statistics and physics will be an even stronger argument than this time around. You heard it here first ;)

Seriously though, the hypocrisy of road safety strategy annoys me more than this specific change.
'Seatbelts are compulsory and anyone even thinking of not using one is a certifiable moron', also 'you should take the bus which is essentially a shipping container full of scaffold poles with no seatbelts being driven by a complete stranger at the end of a long shift'.
'Driving is killing people and the planet and should be stamped out at all costs', also 'we'd like people back in their offices more because the landlords are all losing rent and Pret aren't selling enough sandwiches'.

We have a fair few 20 limits in Sheffield now but they're all on streets which are either parked up solid on both sides or have schools on them. I can totally get on board with that, I find it scary driving those roads at any speed as I'm constantly on the look out for that errant football from the hazard perception test. However, Penistone road is also 30mph and it's 4 lanes wide with a central reservation, no parking allowed and no residential buildings along it's entire length. Making that 20mph simply because you want a nice easy blanket change that doesn't involve any thought or planning would be almost as dumb as including the ring road in your clean air zone so all the vans shortcut through the suburbs past all the schools. Oh hang, no, Sheffield did do that didn't we

[Upt North]

It is difficult to argue against lowering the speed limits if you then agree with drink drive and SRS legislation. All these laws will reduce KSI figures, it's science and you can't argue with science. Whether we want to ride at 20 or not is immaterial. It's the law. Science driven law.
If you don't like it then don't ride on the roads, simples.
Scotland did this years ago and the sun still came up, there's an awful lot of derestricted roads to ride on. OK, I lied about the sun coming up in Scotland.
I used to like the French system but politicians buggered it up, if you saw the town sign, slow down, when you see the exit sign it was game on.
We are a little spoiled in North Northumberland, we don't have a roundabout, traffic lights, pedestrian crossings and not many 30 limits for about 20 miles or more in any direction. But it's horrible, you wouldn't enjoy it, go to Llandudno instead........please.
Upt.
 

[endintears]

Informed consent.
No absolute for the overwhelming majority of people.
All a judgement on what the compromise should be between safety and the environment against economic benefit  and convenience.
Turn every road that's currently a thirty into a twenty gets more of the former against a loss of the latter etc.
When every big construction project is started it's known that it'll probably cause lost lives and severe life changing injurys
Kinetic energy.
Einsteins first law of thermodynamics.
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed - only converted from one form of energy to another.
Solar energy millions of years ago turned into crude oil turned into a RTC in Wales this morning...

[Rixington43]

Oh absolutely you can't argue with the science, but then you wouldn't be able to argue with the science of 10mph or banning driving completely.
* Or to go full tin foil hat, strictly for comedic effect, banning smoking, drinking, cycling, skiing, crisps, biscuits or overly energetic sex.
To be clear, these changes won't effect me obviously since I work from home (and don't live in Wales) but I do think it's a bit simplistic to tell people who commute or take kids to school or run a transport business that they could simply not travel on these roads. I would just like to see a little more targeting and balance rather than blanket changes that seem more about ease/grand gestures for the rule makers than an attempt to assess specific scenarios.

[Rusty Nuts]

"can't argue with science" no, but people can and do manipulate scientific data and statistics to suit their own particular agenda.

[UK_Vstrom650]

I'm sure the people of Wales will make their views known at the next elections.
In the meantime, if the limit is 20mph, do 20mph where it's safe to do so.
As well as making it safe for pedestrians involved in RTCs, part of the aim of this is to encourage alternative transport so I suppose some folks who can may make the switch, which may ease congestion for others who can't/choose not to.

Incidentally, I was knocked off my bicycle last year by an AA van turning left across me with no warning at around 20mph and it bloody hurt and took months to recover from. If they'd hit me at 30 or 40mph I'm sure I'd have been injured much worse. Same would apply if I'd been on the motorbike at the time and knocked off.

I do advocate lower speed limits in built-up areas but see the point about blanket approach rather than it been given due thought/justification for the change.

[Robotstar5]

The first speed awareness course since the introduction of the new limit was busy....

[Upt North]

Of course politicians manipulate data, don't we all?
Upt.

[Brockett]

@ Robostar5 that was

[The Doctor 46]

I lived in a village called Poltimore. It has become a rat run for commuters who travel through at 30mph. 30mph is too fast, the road is single track with no pavements, there are pedestrians, dog walkers, cyclists and horses to say nothing of tractors towing heavy machinery. A milk tanker drives to the local farm every day and when hay is ready large lorries with just as large trailers use the narrow roads too.

The local councillor asked for the speed limit to be lowered to 20mph and to be honest that is to fast during busy rat run times. The answer was no, it must remain 30mph. There were and still are accidents in the village all the time, it's crazy.

The village I now live in is Whiddon Down. The speed limit is 30mph and as I said before, is in my opinion too slow. I don't mind it being 30mph and I don't  brake the speed limit in the village but it is slow.

Speed limits are for people who don't understand what speed is safe and what is not. The same road can be safe or dangerous at different times and a good driver/rider knows that and maintains a safe speed. When I did my advance riding course years ago I was told the course probably wouldn't slow me down but make me safer but faster.

If you you ask the internet what speed do most motorcycle accidents happen at, the answer is 30mph. Does that mean that 60mph is twice as safe?   

[Brockett]

I agree with a 20mph limit in specific streets  and agree that 20 is too fast for some, such as the street that leads to my place. Narrow street with cars parked nose to tail both sides and just enough room for a trasit van down the middle. 

[tonkie]

Maximum here is 35mph with many roads 25 and even some at 15, you’ll get use to it, but there again I haven’t, that’s why I can’t wait to get to France for a week at the weekend 😝

[Joe Rocket]

Speed limits are for people who don't understand what speed is safe and what is not. The same road can be safe or dangerous at different times and a good driver/rider knows that and maintains a safe speed. When I did my advance riding course years ago I was told the course probably wouldn't slow me down but make me safer but faster.

If you you ask the internet what speed do most motorcycle accidents happen at, the answer is 30mph. Does that mean that 60mph is twice as safe?   

Wow, how wrong is that! There is no such thing as a safe speed. The 'limit' is a maximum speed, even for you. It takes into cosideration general expectations of ability, conditions and anticipated traffic flow etc. of everypne. Things change, reduce speed. I too have passed my IAM but at no time was I given any green light to exceed speed limits. On the contrary I learnt to use speed, behaviour and position to highlight my prescence on the road to increase my safety. That made me more confident any maybe quicker in my travels, not faster.....I leave that to the Police. The attitude of "I know how to drive/ride better than you" doesn't change everyone else and above all they don't know you.

Personally I consider your last sentence totally inappropriate "asking the Internet" for a non qualified question to which you don't agree with the answer either.

You have all my respect Doc but I can't agree with you here.

[StromGeeza]

Ditto my experience doing the IAM bike test. They were very keen for you to 'make progress' where conditions allowed but breaking traffic rules such as speed limits was a big no-no.

Used to live near Hendon and would see loads of police bikers with learner plod bikers. They were  amazing at how they'd go miles without ever touching the brakes, always being in the right position on the road at the right speed at the right time. Must have helped having more well-behaved drivers around once they'd clocked that you were the police though!