Author Topic: Valve clearance - have I been seen off  (Read 494 times)

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Offline Ian T

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Valve clearance - have I been seen off
« on: July 17, 2017, 07:52:30 »
Hi everyone

I posted this before and got some great advice especially  from Grey Wolf - thanks to you all. It is just I can't help feeling the dealer has seen me off and it is niggling away as the valves were checked under the recall and to be at the bottom limit, surely they should have done something. The initial recall check was done at 7500.

Just wondering if anyone has experience and if you feel I have some form of redress to go back and get em to do it. I know one kind person said the bottom end is still in range but if they were checked against a recall and at the bottom would it not be an indicator that they are tightening up.

These were the readings when I picked the bike up:

EX      FR       CYL
           .20      .20

IN        .12       .14


IN        RR        CYL
            .12        .12

EX         .20        .20

You can see it is the exhaust valves I am on about.

Grey Wolf said when I posted to do em now or at 1450 miles well I am at that point now after a great trip to Garmisch to look at about 40000 BMW GS's and you know what my bike had more people looking at it. Spooky that eh!

So my question is please, do you think I have any redress in that they should have sorted it out. If yes any guidance please on the way to go.

If not I am having the tank off etc to do the air filter, so I know on my BMW K75s which has bucket and shims it is just compress with tool and pop out shim etc. Is it the same on the DL650. I think I have read that you have to take the cam out and that I think may be beyond my simples ability.

So is it pretty straight forward to change the shims to get, as Grey Wolf suggested them all into the upper range and leave em for the next 100000 or is it a bit of a pig and should I take it into a reputable independent. Ha ha he says.

Cheers

Ian

Offline Valves

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Re: Valve clearance - have I been seen off
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2017, 09:44:08 »
I would certianly get them checked again but not as simple - cylinder tops off to check, if need changing, camshafts have to come out...
You can live more in 5 minutes on a bike... than some people will live in their whole lifetime (Burt Munro, World's Fastest Indian)

Online greywolf

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Re: Valve clearance - have I been seen off
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2017, 12:41:35 »
A dealer won't touch them unless they are out of range. Between 17,000 miles and 50,000 miles on my K7 Wee, I had one exhaust valve close up one leaf on the gauge. The rest were unchanged. 1000s will change a little faster than 650s and exhaust valves faster than intake valves. I know how you feel though. I had one intake valve at minimum so I changed all the shims on valves that were closer than mid spec just for peace of mind. Still, reports of engine valve damage are almost non existent.
Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. 2012 DL650A outlasted me.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 (K2-L2) DL1000s. Veek=2014+ (L4+) DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 (K4-L1) DL650s. Glee = 2012+ (L2+) DL650s

Offline old git

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Re: Valve clearance - have I been seen off
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 13:51:57 »
Bottom tolerance is still in spec. If it's bottom limit from the factory it's still in spec. I first checked clearances on my FJR1300 at 24k service. Found 3 inlets slightly out of spec which I replaced.  Also 2 exhaust shims on bottom limit which I left alone. Fast forward to 48k service and same 2 exhaust valve clearances are unchanged. From a manufacturing and engineering point of view, within tolerance means exactly that. Your engine is within tolerance. I'm no fan of dealers but they are correct in this instance.

Offline Ian T

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Re: Valve clearance - have I been seen off
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2017, 06:03:28 »
Thanks everyone

Had a horrible feeling that was the way it is. I'll get it in to an independent and get em all changed to upper levels then forget it it think. Bet that's not going to be cheap.

Still best done I suppose.

Cheers

Ian

Offline Rich:-)

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Re: Valve clearance - have I been seen off
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2017, 08:03:22 »
if they were checked against a recall and at the bottom would it not be an indicator that they are tightening up.

No, that is just your fear but is only an assumption.

You don't know what they were set to when they were tested at the factory. They are not always middle of range when released. The shims are setup cold during first assembly, the engine is bench run, cooled and then re-checked. Any out of range will be changed, any in range will not be changed.
They may not have moved at all.

I'd leave it well alone and carry on riding. :thumb:

Offline Ian T

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Re: Valve clearance - have I been seen off
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2017, 10:47:59 »
Cheers and bugger

More dilemma so I have ordered another Haynes jobby as I can't find my other one.

Suppose I need to check em to see if they moved. How hard is it on one of these machines easy peasy on BMW and Urinal. Any hints or tips to make it easier please

Cheers

Ian

Offline Rich:-)

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Re: Valve clearance - have I been seen off
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2017, 11:14:28 »
Checking is easy, changing is harder. Getting to the cam covers (I'd imagine) is the hardest part..
Haven't done it on mine yet but have done it many times on my DRZ400 and once to a Hornet 600.

I plan on doing it to both my V-twins at the end of the season, just so I have a record of their positions.

Offline Angustoyou

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Re: Valve clearance - have I been seen off
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2017, 22:42:47 »
I'd go bananas if a dealer changed shims that were in spec, however close to the limit they were.  And there's no way on earth I'd pay him for it, so don't knock the dealer for doing exactly the right thing.  Knowing one or two are close means you'll check them when you should, it was good of him to mention it.  I was an automotive engineer, so this is not uninformed speculation or heresay.

The acceptable tolerance takes into account the time/mileage until the next check is due.  If your valve clearances change significantly enough to cause problems within that time, you have far bigger problems that a simple shim swap would not cure.

Check at recommended intervals, earlier if you thrash the shit out of the bike even when cold, and only consider changing them if they are OUT of spec.  Not close to being out, or right on the limit, but actually out of spec.    Anything else simply fuels paranoia and paints a needlessly poor picture of the engine reliability, " yeah, changed mine at xxxxxx miles, ' cos they were nearly at the limit".  "I've heard a few people say they changed theirs at...., so I think I'll do mine..."  They may well have been fine for another 50,000 miles or more!

Sorry, rant over!

Offline Angustoyou

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Re: Valve clearance - have I been seen off
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2017, 22:54:21 »
PS
Don't think you can avoid checking them at recommended intervals if they are all at max.  Valve clearances can tighten or widen, and checking them regularly will give early warning of an upcoming issue, and help avoid a dropped valve for example.  Seats and valve faces commonly wear, but valves can stretch too. One valve that needs a different shim every valve check = a problem somewhere.

Don't sweat it, if they are in spec you can forget about them until they are due to be checked next, that is what the specs are for, so that you don't need to worry.  Spend money on nothing if you want though...

Offline Hugh Mungus

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Re: Valve clearance - have I been seen off
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2017, 05:54:27 »
Wait until the next service. If any need replacing it will be done then.
As it's not an easy job you can start saving up now for a big bill.