How to claim against the county council

[Rusty Nuts]

Sounds like you found the little - known magical French village of Gravillons, Mick. It pops up wherever I drive in France

[BigAldo]

BURDEN OF PROOF: There are different standards in different circumstances. For example, in criminal cases, the burden of proving the defendant's guilt is on the prosecution, and they must establish that fact beyond a reasonable doubt. In civil cases, the plaintiff has the burden of proving his case by a preponderance of the evidence.

Since this would be a civil case, the burden of proof lies with the plaintiff (the person raising the complaint), and would be considered to be "on the balance of probability" (civil) rather than "beyond reasonable doubt" (criminal).

Effectively you would need to prove, by way of significant evidence, that the council were negligent and that your actions in no way contributed to the accident, because the 'other side' will try to cast doubt over this.

It may be morally unjust, but the burden of proof in this instance would be a steep hill for you to climb.

[ggreen1959]

Please do not quote the post directly above.

It is in fact such a big hill to climb that it is easier to roll over and be kicked in the nuts too. It just isn't fair and there is no way around it.

[tallpaul]

I wonder how the OP got on...?

[Joe Rocket]

Am I alone here or can't you just recognise gravel/potholes etc. and avoid them?

Use your eyes and slow down.

Can of worms syndrome....insurance claims and suing someone unless it wasn't really and honestly your fault.

Sorry.   

[hotbulb]

Unfortunately, Joe R, it's often a case of trying to spot the intact road surface amongst the gravel and potholes. Ideally yes, one would spot and avoid the hazards, but sometimes that's just not possible. The roads in much of the UK are that bad!
For too long, government, local and national, has got away with underspending on the road infrastructure, and it's now got to the stage where serious damage, and danger, are visited upon road users Through the use of "high powered" lawyers and insurers the culprits have thus far "got away with it", but it's surely high time that the problem was recognised and remedied.

[ggreen1959]

Am I alone here or can't you just recognise gravel/potholes etc. and avoid them?

Use your eyes and slow down.

Can of worms syndrome....insurance claims and suing someone unless it wasn't really and honestly your fault.

Sorry.   

  I actually quite resent that comment. I have been riding for 35 years and this is the first off. The gravel was there and I had seen it, I was only doing about 10mph and have witnessess to say that I was hardly moving, but I came off on gravel put down by the council that they agree they had put there. Their defence is that because the gravel is not part of the fabric of the road, they are not responsible! That is my argument, sorry I'm not perfect like some on here.

[Joe Rocket]

OK, a bit blunt but some questions first:

Did you lose the front or back wheel, which brake(s) did you use, did you turn at the same time or did you just fall off because you lost balance.......? I'm not a judge but it might help to identify the cause of your off.

I've been taught that riding on different surfaces is my call as to speed and action I take. Recognising the surface conditions is the ultimate trigger of necessary action for riding through it. There are numerous roads over here annually redressed with tar/chippings in patches or totally  and I wouldn't under-estimate the danger on two wheels

A past friend of mine volunteered one day that he'd put his car in a ditch but it wasn't his fault, it was the wet leaves on the road. 

Just yesterday I way riding down a gravelly road with some friends and one of them said she didn't know how to deal with it, just braked. I asked which brake and she said just the front. 

To answer the finish of your reply I can assure you I'm long from being anywhere near perfect. I attended a 'Prévention Moto' morning organised by my Insurance company over here Wednesday last week (11th July) and rode a number of slow bike control  excercises and I have to report I was well below par for completing tight circles, figure of eight and slalom (no chippings in sight). I'm not happy with that and am now minded to test myself more on the same little challenges.

I hope that explains my earlier post more and puts it in perspective but also a bigger question asking ourselves about our actions before assuming someone else was to blame.

Honestly no intention to annoy you or anyone else was intended.

Joe Rocket. 

[Brockett]

A local minor road has been coated and the excess grit has been dragged onto the A road roundabout. No signs on the A road as it is not the road that was treated. It's been done about  two weeks and although I have traveled it by car it is still too thick in places for a bike. The road surface is just as bumpy. It's about time they stopped this dangerous practice.

[King Orry]

Good post Mr Rocket
I must admit, I’ve never fallen off and thought it wasn’t my fault.
Each time I’ve looked back & thought I should have done more to prevent it, even when other factors have contributed.
Hell, even on the two occasions when cars have turned across my path at the last moment, I thought ‘sh!t I should have been more aware, should have spotted that, should have placed myself in a better position’, both physically and mentally.
Having said that, I did get the repairs paid for on those occasions, so I can see both sides.
In your case sadly, I think you’re on a road to nowhere. 
Keeps your eyes peeled folks, ???? they’re out to get you.

[Joe Rocket]

I think a lot of people have forgotten rule 213 of the Highway Code. I'll let those who aren't aware go away and look it up and reflect on their position concerning cause/fault. It appears we used to have problems with slippery manhole covers too..........! 

Interestingly only Simon W has mentioned the Highway Code through this thread before this post.

 

[ggreen1959]

Thanks Joe Rocket for your Reply #27 on: July 19.  I was just feathering off the front brake as I turned in I think, so that would have initiated the incident. The thread was however about the codition of the road and the council not taking liability for making it dangerous without warning. If I spread gravel on I road making the road dangerous I'd get done.

Highway code rule 213 is about drivers giving motorcycles room to manoeuvre not about bikers looking out for themselves on the road. Rule 154 is more appropriate for this thread.

[UK_Vstrom650]

This is all very interesting.

I seem to remember a Solicitor in Ride magazine writing on this type of subject a while ago, and it came down to whether the council could reasonably be expected to be aware of the hazard and take appropriate action. If I recall the examples given were a pothole on an A road should be identified and fixed within a month or so (as the Council could reasonable be expected to inspect a major A road once a month), whereas mud from a farmer's field on a B-road, where it couldn't be reasonably expected for the Council to be aware of this and remove, albeit I think the advise was if you had an accident in those circumstances you could probably claim from the farmer via small claims court.

Going back to this incident, there's nothing to stop you going to the small claims court to pursue the Council for costs. It appears the Solicitors are saying you have 50:50 chance of success, so they wouldn't take it on as there is a risk you might not win, and be liable for their fees. Judges are reasonable people and will look at all the evidence available and make a decision based on the information available.
(You also have to remember that sometimes initiating court proceedings may make the Council reconsider the case depending on how much you are claiming as it may not be worth defending, but you also need to be prepared to go to Court to make your case)